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Author Topic: Back to Speakers! And so it begins... again! Madisound BK-16 Fostex fe166 kit.  (Read 37271 times)

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Marvey

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I just got the Sigmas in the BK-16 box. Not designed for it, but I made it work. More details later. The Sigmas are really really nice.
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Marvey

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The follow up. Yeah I understand - it was so hard for me to find reliable information on the BK-16 kit of even on the FE168EZ Sigmas.

If there's one single thing I would say, I think the FE166 and especially the FE168 Sigma driver perform better if roll them off a little bit on the bass with a 200-270uF cap and fill in the bass with a good 12" or bigger driver. Depends on your priorities and the demands of your recordings though.

http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1680.msg44748.html#msg44748
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 04:04:38 PM by marvey »
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AmaeusMozart

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.......

The EnABL stuff definitely smells like voodoo. I would like to see measurements.

The "pre treatment" (or "trifoil" pattern with damar and subsequent mod-podge coating) for the FE127e was indicated by another party's testing. Subsequent measurements proved that the 7 ~ 8 Khz peak has all but completely disappeared. (that peak can be triggered by half the frequency). Have searched high and low and have not come accross any measurements for the "enabling" part and as I understand form the postings it is all based on listening tests and "subjective opinions".

Be aware that the Fostex drivers need considerable time to "loosen up", some will connect them out of phase and place them face to face with a blanket over them and let them play for a week or two before listening. No bass to be expected with less than 25 hours on them at "normal" levels. Horns are also subject to "aging"- the timber needs to acclimatise after the cabinet is constructed, have seen Japanese test results after a day, a week, two weeks and a month and the response curve clearly showed the changes.

Due to the high sensitivity the normal input required is pretty low so do not place a big amplifier in front of it, that 150 watt per channel solid state amplifier is not going to sound nice. (as you already discovered).  Best is a single ended tube amplifier since you won't have crossover distortion.

Edit: Just be aware that with most SE amplifiers any type of passive filtering will increase distortion.

Regarding REW and high levels: on my computer there is a setting to increase the sensitivity of the microphone (like switching on a preamplifier) - afterwards the testing could be done with my Samson USB Go-Mic at pretty low levels (before that I was afraid of destroying the driver).
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 11:01:52 AM by AmaeusMozart »
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Marvey

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Yeah, I noticed the Fostex drivers needed a small amount of break-in. (The Seas drivers with rubber surrounds never seemed to require break-out.) I assume the treated paper or foam surrounds the spider of the Fostex's needed to loosen up. The material seems kind of crusty when new from the box. Loosing them up probably ends up increasing Qts and lowering Fs. I won't bother placing them face to face and playing them out of phase to break them in faster since it eventually happens. There's no rush on my part since I'll keep tuning things for at least a few weeks before I am totally happy.

And oh yes, the shellac, varnish, etc. on the cone WILL work. That's certainly not BS. I've tried that before on various cheap paper cones. That's changing the resonant properties and mass of the cone.

I plan on doing a comparison between the EnABL dots and scribbling "Admiral Akbar is Great" in cursive script around the cone to see which method is better from a subjective point of view.


For those of you reading this post who are unfamiliar with EnABL, read here: http://www.planet10-hifi.com/fostex.html

Single-driver guys tend to be a superstitious lot. I can't wait to scribble "Admiral Akbar is Great" in cursive script around the cone.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 06:13:07 PM by marvey »
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AmaeusMozart

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There is a difference between having with laser detect certain resonance areas in the cone (like the FE127e / FE126e and addressing those with damar)  and the voodoo of painting little dots everywhere. I've got a hard time staying open minded and believing the latter.
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OJneg

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I'm finding the FE166 to be tonally more laid back (than the FE126) but its presentation is more forward and coherent at the same time. I hope that makes sense. Also more open sounding. A definite upgrade on my baffle.  :)p1

I'm able to cross the FE166 much lower and not worry about blowing it out with bass. First order crossover at 180Hz ATM. Fs of the FE126 was around 82Hz so it tended to boom, whereas the FE166 has Fs at 53Hz so it lets the filter be much more effective.
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JK47

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I don't know if anyone still follows this topic...

I recently purchased the BK-16 kit and an Elekit TU-8200DX tube amp, and found this thread. I'm really enjoying this combo, and reading this thread from the first page.



Here is a link to a few Nagaoka designs from a Japanese web site. http://homepage3.nifty.com/spida/eng-page9-1-5.htm http://homepage3.nifty.com/spida/eng-page25-6.htm

If you scroll down to the D-3MKII.1 enclosure for a F208e Sigma, you will notice Madisound almost exaclty copied this design for their BK series.

Nagaoka-San is now deceased, but his designs are some what legendary. Having several published books in Japan, with his designs.

Here is another link to the homepage of the same fellow that posted the above D-3MKII.1 enclosure. http://homepage3.nifty.com/spida/framepageeng-9.htm  enjoy browsing! some really interestinfg stuff!
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Marvey

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There was another Japanese site that also provided RL horn designs for the Fostex. They used layers of wood machined with a a horn curve stacked together. Can't seem to find it.
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JK47

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There was another Japanese site that also provided RL horn designs for the Fostex. They used layers of wood machined with a a horn curve stacked together. Can't seem to find it.

http://telavox.web.fc2.com/speaker_box3.html#mmt

http://telavox.web.fc2.com/assembling.html

A little bit pricey, even more so with the special acoustic dampening coating...

These folded horn designs really fascinate me! One of my FE166En have a large crease on the front suspension, and the other has a somewhat smaller one. Don't know how much it affects the sound... Madisound said they would ship a replacement tomorrow, but I asked if I could pay the difference and upgrade to the Sigma, still waiting on their response.

UPDATE: Madisound will let me pay the difference and upgrade to the Sigma's, but they are backordered and a couple weeks out. My hat's off to Madisound for their quick resolution and flexibility.

« Last Edit: January 13, 2015, 10:50:28 PM by JK47 »
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JK47

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The follow up. Yeah I understand - it was so hard for me to find reliable information on the BK-16 kit of even on the FE168EZ Sigmas.

If there's one single thing I would say, I think the FE166 and especially the FE168 Sigma driver perform better if roll them off a little bit on the bass with a 200-270uF cap and fill in the bass with a good 12" or bigger driver. Depends on your priorities and the demands of your recordings though.

http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1680.msg44748.html#msg44748


What brand and what voltage cap did you use?
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