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Author Topic: CD and Non-disc Transports, What's the Effin' deal?  (Read 13136 times)

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lmswjm

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Re: CD and Non-disc Transports, What's the Effin' deal?
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2013, 01:14:43 AM »
Quote from: DaveBSC on January 27, 2013, 10:04:57 PM


The Rendu just needs some sort of network storage, not necessarily a computer. It can use a NAS without any problem, controls are through your phone.

I thought the L1000 has been around for awhile, and that Bryston based their server on it. The problem with Auraliti is they don't use VortexBox, they use some other flavor of Linux, I'm not entirely sure of what. That means USB compatibility is gonna be iffy. VortexBox has been updated and supports both XMOS and Hiface interfaces which is what most of the USB dacs and converters use.

Sonore also sells the SoTM SMS-1000 server which is $2500 with USB out, or $2700 with USB and coaxial, optical, and AES/EBU digital outputs and runs VortexBox.

I spoke with Adrian from Sonore yesterday. I was ready to try the Rendu because I thought it was NAS compatible as the description reads. He was the one who told me it would be dependent on some sort of PC. I'll email him again to clarify...

Also according to Adrian, the SoTM is manufactured overseas by a company they sold a license to and recommends the US made Sonore Music Server primarily. It was some sort of deal that also made them take their music server off their website. :-Z
The link I posted was emailed to me.

From what I can tell, the L1000 has been in the works for a while, but only now just becoming available. For my use, the best input on my DAC is BNC.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/auraliti-l1000-usb-streamer
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anetode

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Re: CD and Non-disc Transports, What's the Effin' deal?
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2013, 01:43:42 AM »
Quote (selected)
dtrewwye: tascam cdp -> NAD M51 (coax) -> stepdance -> t50rp
Delete Today at 07:38:51 PM
dtrewwye: no, tascam CDP
Delete Today at 07:38:23 PM
anetode: as in laptop cd drive with digital outbut via usb to dac?
Delete Today at 07:37:14 PM
dtrewwye: @anetode - had the chance to listen to a couple of CDs using a CDP vs listening to the same thing through a laptop.  DAC amp and headphones were the same, but end results were...suprisingly different
dtrewwye: What are the biggest differences between CD medium and USB audio?  Why does CD sound 'better' so to say?
Delete Today at 07:35:11 PM
anetode: noisy power's not really applicable in a fair comparison and the jitter is negligible with either solution. pick whatever's convenient or tickles your fancy without all the quasi-technical rationalization
Delete Today at 07:21:11 PM
Maxvla: what is the topic? not sure how to answer cause i have no idea what you are asking.
Delete Today at 07:07:49 PM
dtrewwye: @Maxvla, sorry wasn't too clear - difference between CDP and USB (PC Audio).  Jitter, noisy power and what else?

dtrewwye, I don't know what these differences sounded like. At this point I think it's fairly certain that it wasn't a difference in jitter. Was there stuttering or a tonal change or what?
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dtrewwye

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Re: CD and Non-disc Transports, What's the Effin' deal?
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2013, 01:51:20 AM »
Tonal change and plankton.  Little bits of detail as well as the decay were more obvious - there was a bigger sense of realism as well.  Not sure how to better describe it
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anetode

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Re: CD and Non-disc Transports, What's the Effin' deal?
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2013, 02:03:49 AM »
Possible factors include resampling by your lappy prior to output or processing (& failure thereof) of the USB signal on the NAD. My money's on neither.

With a proper implementation there's no difference to the DAC how it gets its signal, whether USB or coax or etc. Jitter has to be pretty bad (as in- wtf? did a two year old stick peanut butter into my dac?-bad) for it to be noticeable and jitter rejection schemes, whether simple PLL or proprietary ultra-mega-whatever, are remarkably successful in bringing it to 2-3 magnitudes below audibility.

I don't know why you heard what you did, but if a CDP is what does it for you, great! Don't tempt yourself to peel back the curtain and see the wizard at work.
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olor1n

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Re: CD and Non-disc Transports, What's the Effin' deal?
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2013, 02:19:25 AM »
The M51 has measured well across all its inputs. There are many variables in your comparison that you've not even outlined. I don't think you can automatically make such a sweeping generalisation that CD sounds better than usb. Was the same disc spun in the laptop's disc drive and then output to the dac via usb? That difference you heard could point to the quality of that drive compared to the CDP. What software was employed on the laptop and were you certain it was adjusted to optimal settings as Anetode has posed?


Anyway, if the CDP worked best for you, why not just go for it, instead of condemning all usb implementations?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 02:26:35 AM by olor1n »
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DaveBSC

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Re: CD and Non-disc Transports, What's the Effin' deal?
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2013, 03:55:17 AM »
Quote from: anetode on January 28, 2013, 02:03:49 AM
Possible factors include resampling by your lappy prior to output or processing (& failure thereof) of the USB signal on the NAD. My money's on neither.

With a proper implementation there's no difference to the DAC how it gets its signal, whether USB or coax or etc. Jitter has to be pretty bad (as in- wtf? did a two year old stick peanut butter into my dac?-bad) for it to be noticeable and jitter rejection schemes, whether simple PLL or proprietary ultra-mega-whatever, are remarkably successful in bringing it to 2-3 magnitudes below audibility.

I don't know why you heard what you did, but if a CDP is what does it for you, great! Don't tempt yourself to peel back the curtain and see the wizard at work.

No, no, no, no.
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olor1n

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Re: CD and Non-disc Transports, What's the Effin' deal?
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2013, 04:02:24 AM »
Lol. Here we go!  :)p1
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anetode

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Re: CD and Non-disc Transports, What's the Effin' deal?
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2013, 04:08:10 AM »
Quote from: DaveBSC on January 28, 2013, 03:55:17 AM
No, no, no, no.

Not one yes? I didn't even get one right? Damn I suck.



There's a good reason why I stayed away from commenting on the "[h]ow to get clean audio from the PC to a USB powered Dac?" thread  :)p8
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DaveBSC

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Re: CD and Non-disc Transports, What's the Effin' deal?
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2013, 04:28:14 AM »
Quote from: anetode on January 28, 2013, 04:08:10 AM
Quote from: DaveBSC on January 28, 2013, 03:55:17 AM
No, no, no, no.

Not one yes? I didn't even get one right? Damn I suck.

There's a good reason why I stayed away from commenting on the "[h]ow to get clean audio from the PC to a USB powered Dac?" thread  :)p8

What you're effectively saying is that DACs are essentially immune to source jitter, unless that jitter is on the order of several nano seconds, ungodly terrible. It's just not accurate. It's effectively the same argument as saying "all non-clipping, solid state amplifiers sound the same." No they don't, and neither are DACs immune to source jitter. Jitter isn't the only factor when dealing with USB vs. something like a transport through coax, but it's part of it.

And before you even start throwing measurements at me from Nwavguy Astralstorm, I'm not arguing this with you.
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Re: CD and Non-disc Transports, What's the Effin' deal?
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2013, 05:13:17 AM »
Well, fwiw I've been sitting here tonight comparing the Pioneer Elite BDP-52FD I got for $45 at a swap meet versus a $499 Oppo BDP-103 I picked up on a deal using one of my DXD test tracks via Optical > PWD > Super 7 > HD800.  The track is Drum Improvisation #1 from the Sheffield Labs Drum and Track Disc.  Same cable, DAC, amp and phones.  Only the source changing.  All the same bits/1's and 0's?  I was hoping the Pioneer would stack up or exceed the Oppo, however, it got crushed.  The Oppo sounds like I'm in the studio listening to the performance, the Pioneer lacks the full bodied weight on each note, separation and imaging is more smeared.  It sounds like comparing a real live drum set to a toy drum set made of plastic in comparison.  The timbre is that far off.  This is an easy A/B, it's not even close.  I could put anyone reading this in my chair right now and you'd pick it out blind.  I was actually hoping to save some money and return this thing.  Next up, I'm grabbing purrin's modded Marantz versus the Oppo via optical and coax.  this Pioneer has no coax.  Too bad because the Pioneer was every bit the Oppo's equal via Blu-Ray.
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