What kind of bass do they have, Don ?
I'd be worried about that aspect with such a design.

I think the best thing that could happen to the hobby is if the Abyss and other products like it fell flat on it's face and became the butt of every enthusiasts jokes. I can guarantee you there will probably be a number of people who will buy these headphones and run around hyping them half way to the moon when they probably won't deliver half of what will be claimed. Lets be honest, some people buy pricey flagships only to show off and little else. If you ask me it's a rather sad state of affairs for the hobby and we can only blame them and ourselves for it. People need to better educate themselves especially when the word audiophile begins to be thrown around mixed in with market speak. If I had the money to burn I'd throw down the 5000 bones on a SR 009 because they have a history and a proven track record. The same money on a headphone from a cable company.....yeah OK whatever.
 

I do think there is legitimacy in what Tari was saying regarding pushing until one encounters resistance.

I would agree that moving forward is a good thing in general, but I also think there's something to be said for working within certain boundaries. I'm sure some really incredible stuff could be produced with enough resources that would have to be sold for upwards of $10k just to break even, but where does one draw the line? At what point do we say "enough" to rising prices? Let's face it: headphone prices are going up and up and up.

I love "the little guys" out there, as they're doing innovative stuff and pushing boundaries, and without folks like Fang and Takei I think this hobby would be worse off. I want them to succeed. I want them to make money so that they can keep doing what they do. I don't want to see Sennheiser and Sony ruling everything comfortably, and am glad these little dudes can start a fire under their posteriors, which would otherwise be comfortably sitting on their thrones.

But this just isn't the way to go about it. I'm the sort of person who buys ridiculous stuff without much of a second thought, but I do it for very well-defined personal reasons, and I do it reluctantly because I realize I'm feeding into it. Obviously these types of products aren't for the "average" consumer but rather the specialist. Still, I can't help but feel like it's effecting the market as a whole; the amount the "average" audiophile is willing to spend is going up I think, and the line is blurring more and more between penultimate-fi and summit-fi. Expensive products are nothing new. Back in the early 90s we had the R10 and the Orpheus. However the market for these products is starting to mutate, and the overall landscape of the hobby itself is changing.

I think the Muramasa VIII was something of an eyeopener for me, affected something of a seachange in me. Or was at least a big contributing factor in my shifting philosophy. Obviously they are two very different products, but I think they have certain similarities. In both cases, the designers are going all out (either in technological development for the Abyss or in design and materials for the Muramasa) without some kind of system in place to ensure their costs turn out at least semi-reasonable at the end of the day, whether it's during the designing stage itself or afterwards as an overall business strategy, like Tari was saying earlier. Instead it seems like they're charging these huge sums and instead of saying "gee, this doesn't seem acceptabl e," they think it's fine because audiophiles will buy anything. There will always be someone (like me, I suppose) willing to give it a try.

The Muramasa was a complete and utter failure. So much so that FAD swept it under the rug and is now pretending it never existed. It cost way to much to produce those solid, machined pieces and the end result was something that couldn't even be worn for more than a few minutes without inducing crippling pain. It was, quite simply, the result of their unwillingness to compromise. Now they've got a new lineup of headphones at *gasp* reasonable prices (well, for FAD anyway) and show a newfound flexibility. And you know what? Reports are saying they sound good and don't cause crippling pain within a matter of minutes.

I honestly don't see the Abyss being much of a success either, though for different reasons. If this headphone is a failure, I hope Abyss can learn from their mistakes and produce something more reasonably priced the second time around. I really do want the little guys to succeed. I want us as hobbyists to be able to afford car payments and dinner, too.

I'll bet a medium sized m&m's.

Quote from: DigitalFreak on October 14, 2012, 10:25:44 PM

I think the best thing that could happen to the hobby is if the Abyss and other products like it fell flat on it's face and became the butt of every enthusiasts jokes. I can guarantee you there will probably be a number of people who will buy these headphones and run around hyping them half way to the moon when they probably won't deliver half of what will be claimed. Lets be honest, some people buy pricey flagships only to show off and little else. If you ask me it's a rather sad state of affairs for the hobby and we can only blame them and ourselves for it. People need to better educate themselves especially when the word audiophile begins to be thrown around mixed in with market speak. If I had the money to burn I'd throw down the 5000 bones on a SR 009 because they have a history and a proven track record. The same money on a headphone from a cable company.....yeah OK whatever.
 

I do think there is legitimacy in what Tari was saying regarding pushing until one encounters resistance.

I would agree that moving forward is a good thing in general, but I also think there's something to be said for working within certain boundaries. I'm sure some really incredible stuff could be produced with enough resources that would have to be sold for upwards of $10k just to break even, but where does one draw the line? At what point do we say "enough" to rising prices? Let's face it: headphone prices are going up and up and up.

I love "the little guys" out there, as they're doing innovative stuff and pushing boundaries, and without folks like Fang and Takei I think this hobby would be worse off. I want them to succeed. I want them to make money so that they can keep doing what they do. I don't want to see Sennheiser and Sony ruling everything comfortably, and am glad these little dudes can start a fire under their posteriors, which would otherwise be comfortably sitting on their thrones.

But this just isn't the way to go about it. I'm the sort of person who buys ridiculous stuff without much of a second thought, but I do it for very well-defined personal reasons, and I do it reluctantly because I realize I'm feeding into it. Obviously these types of products aren't for the "average" consumer but rather the specialist. Still, I can't help but feel like it's effecting the market as a whole; the amount the "average" audiophile is willing to spend is going up I think, and the line is blurring more and more between penultimate-fi and summit-fi. Expensive products are nothing new. Back in the early 90s we had the R10 and the Orpheus. However the market for these products is starting to mutate, and the overall landscape of the hobby itself is changing.

I think the Muramasa VIII was something of an eyeopener for me, affected something of a seachange in me. Or was at least a big contributing factor in my shifting philosophy. Obviously they are two very different products, but I think they have certain similarities. In both cases, the designers are going all out (either in technological development for the Abyss or in design and materials for the Muramasa) without some kind of system in place to ensure their costs turn out at least semi-reasonable at the end of the day, whether it's during the designing stage itself or afterwards as an overall business strategy, like Tari was saying earlier. Instead it seems like they're charging these huge sums and instead of saying "gee, this doesn't seem acceptable," they think it's fine because audiophiles will buy anything. There will always be someone (like me, I suppose) willing to give it a try.

The Muramasa was a complete and utter failure. So much so that FAD swept it under the rug and is now pretending it never existed. It cost way to much to produce those solid, machined pieces and the end result was something that couldn't even be worn for more than a few minutes without inducing crippling pain. It was, quite simply, the result of their unwillingness to compromise. Now they've got a new lineup of headphones at *gasp* reasonable prices (well, for FAD anyway) and show a newfound flexibility. And you know what? Reports are saying they sound good and don't cause crippling pain within a matter of minutes.

I honestly don't see the Abyss being much of a success either, though for different reasons. If this headphone is a failure, I hope Abyss can learn from their mistakes and produce something more reasonably priced the second time around. I really do want the little guys to succeed. I want us as hobbyists to be able to afford car payments and dinner, too.

I think me and you are on the same page Romi. I myself don't mind seeing pricey gear and I agree that there's gear out there in the thousands of dollars that's probably well worth it's price. People on head-fi seem to like to throw the term "you may dislike them but because of Monster more people are becoming more aware of better sound" around. In my opinion that's part of the problem with the hobby right now. Monster proved to the world that with enough flash and marketing speak you could sell a hunk of crap at a premium price and that's what I'm seeing a lot of companies in the industry trying to do. Sennheiser seems to be messing around with the idea of style over innovation which is just sad. Look at AKG and you see a company whose been wresting on it's laurels and seems to think their old bygone glory years will get them by. I blame Hardon Kardon for AKG's downward spiral and it just proves to me what can happen when the bean counters are allowed to have the final voice.

I'm sorry to hear about your Muramassa. On the plus side I still think you got yourself an exquisite looking piece of kit and considering you're a collector I wouldn't sour on your purchase to quickly. Considering it's only one of several in the wild I think it's a stunning piece to have as part of your collection. I do agree though, at the price you paid the problems you had shouldn't have ever happened. FAD should give their heads a shake and realize the stupidity of their ways can dearly cost them in the long run.

Right now I'm starting to think I won't be in this hobby to much longer. The way prices continue to soar year after year the headphone industry and associated gear around it will eventually go the way of the hi fi industry where people are paying an absurd premium for a 1% boost in audio performance. Practices like that only lead to stagnation. Right now I'm thinking grab what I can while it's still affordable before things shift into the realm of ridiculous and learn to be content with what I have. A shame, I really enjoy this hobby immensely.