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Author Topic: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...  (Read 232971 times)

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Griffon

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #1390 on: May 17, 2015, 06:16:26 PM »

If you son likes the DirecStream, then it's good.

The Nordost cable seems more outragous to me though.
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x838nwy

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #1391 on: May 18, 2015, 02:54:14 AM »

If you son likes the DirecStream, then it's good.

The Nordost cable seems more outragous to me though.

To be fair - and to clarify that i'm not too much into canles - The Nordost in this system are mainly power cables. Speaker cables are BJC and the interconnect to the power amp is a custom job cos Old Naim gear use some crazy wiring schemes. IMO they do make a slight difference but then again i'm only using their blue heaven stuff I get from ebay (all nib or from a seller i'm familiar with) so i'm not paying crazy ampunts for them. But yeah, to my ears gungnir < pwdII < DS.
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bixby

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #1392 on: May 22, 2015, 05:07:50 AM »

Hi Folks:

Short time lurker who has found reading this site to be truly beneficial.  I hope to be able to contribute sometime in the future.

My virgin post is a question on a lower end usb dac to pair with my Linux box and Lake People G109 and Mad Dogs.  It is a bedside system that is doing fairly well with a HRT Music streamer II+ and Schiit Wyrd.  I feel the sound could be a little more forthcoming in the mids and lower treble and think perhaps a dac change could do this.

Austin's comments on the Modi 2 Uber to another person have piqued my interest in that as a possible tonal change - sidegrade- upgrade?  and would like to hear other ideas and opinions if you would be so kind.

cheers
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Hifi01170

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #1393 on: June 10, 2015, 09:37:20 AM »

Hi Guys,

Is it stupid to even consider an R2R dac like the gda600 or a theta gen 3 or 5, for iem listening?

I don't have for the time being a nice DAC... was considering getting the GO450 but not easy to get one in europe at a decent price compared to what it costs as new in the US. Was also lurking around R2R Dac's (again not for the same purpose but out of curiosity and what Purrin has been writing on them... =)

Thanks!
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Sholay

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #1394 on: June 22, 2015, 12:45:32 PM »

Recently got to hear few DAC+amps :

Audeze Deckard + LCD2 Fazor - Overly bassy, thick notes, treble even grainier than the old LCD2. Mid range ain't as dark but still artificial. The Deckard appears to be quite low on resolution

Geek Out 450 + LCD X - The LCD X is certainly more linear, refined and spacious than the LCD2. However the mids sound a bit painful and uneven. The Geek out is impressive given its compact size and USB only power. Clean blackground and was able to drive the LCD X with acceptable authority and is quite a bit more resolving than the Deckard. However, it has metallic feel to the treble and is digital sounding with brittle/glossy edges to the notes.

Geek Out 450 + LCD3 fazor - The LCD3 was unbelievably a dud mess of warm sound. Gone is the sub bass, all you hear is mid bass, dull mids and no treble. Even though its warmer than other LCDs ,it isnt as thick sounding. Maybe a little bit more resolute than the 2 and X ,but for $2k its a waste of money.

All the audezes do not have accuracy in the mids at all. Male vocals sound overly strong while female vocals sound thick. Very artificial sound. Although the LCD 2 R1 wasn't any great but with the fazors audeze seems to have gone backwards

Geek Out 450 + HD800 - Poor combination. Avoid at all cost. HD800 proved to be too difficult a load for the GO450. Thin, flat, sibilant sound all over. HD800 with EHHA Rev A was a much much better experience.

Chord Hugo + HD800 with AK240 as digital source - Wow! what a disgrace to the HD800. The Hugo has a really strange sound. As if a detail filter was applied. Major sounds can be heard but all the little details are totally absent. For the same reason it sounds extremely 2D. Zero layering, depth and flat dynamics. The grain and hardness is not immediately apparent but mids onwards the Hugo definitely lacks lots of refinement. And for $2k it has no right to stay in the market. What a BS product!

This was only the second time i heard the HD800 and even tough with the Hugo one can easily tell that this headphone has some of the fastest upper treble.



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frenchbat

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #1395 on: June 22, 2015, 01:17:53 PM »

Hi Guys,

Is it stupid to even consider an R2R dac like the gda600 or a theta gen 3 or 5, for iem listening?

Why not ? Just be careful with your amp. The Theta are outputing a signal higher than the usual 2V. So you absolutely need to make sure the gain won't be too high for your iems.
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madaboutaudio

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #1396 on: June 22, 2015, 04:10:55 PM »

Recently got to hear few DAC+amps :


Chord Hugo + HD800 with AK240 as digital source - Wow! what a disgrace to the HD800. The Hugo has a really strange sound. As if a detail filter was applied. Major sounds can be heard but all the little details are totally absent. For the same reason it sounds extremely 2D. Zero layering, depth and flat dynamics. The grain and hardness is not immediately apparent but mids onwards the Hugo definitely lacks lots of refinement. And for $2k it has no right to stay in the market. What a BS product!

This was only the second time i heard the HD800 and even tough with the Hugo one can easily tell that this headphone has some of the fastest upper treble.


Woah bro! You gonna make ahgooh and the rest of the chord hypertrain at headfi very angry with you. How can you criticise the mastery of Robert Watts gizillion tap filtering.

But I like your opinion :)
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Marvey

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #1397 on: June 22, 2015, 11:39:15 PM »

The techno-babble on Hugo would be more believable if it actually translated into sonic results. Wide stage with no depth, treble grain, thin, and lifeless.
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ultrabike

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #1398 on: June 23, 2015, 12:58:10 AM »

I would like to see a reasonable explanation of what this WTA filter actually is. > 1 MHz sampling, 26k taps is not going to cut it for me. Most anyother filter can be 26k taps long with 99.9% of the taps being close to zero, or severly oversampled and taking care of the ultrasonic audioband, or both.

Furthermore, I've seen conflicting stories of what the WTA filter stuffs does and/or behaves:

Here it rolls of the treble, measures like crap, and has multiple settings which suggest there is not one WTA filter but many:

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/index.php/cd-dvd-blu-ray/62-cd-reviews/642-audiolab-q-dac-filters-.html

Here a DAC with WTA awesomeness doesn't seem to roll the treble but the jitter is all over the map (dunno if related or unrelated to the WTA implementation or some mishapen):

http://www.stereophile.com/content/chord-electronics-dac64-da-processor-measurements

... Obviously I can't make heads or tails of what Chord's not-so-awesome sauce is.
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madaboutaudio

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #1399 on: June 23, 2015, 02:12:07 AM »

Quote (selected)
Hugo and Dave don't use any kind of DAC chip, the analogue conversion is discrete using pulse array. The key benefit of pulse array - something I have not seen any other DAC technology achieve at all - is an analogue type distortion characteristic. By this I mean, as the signal gets smaller, the distortion gets smaller too. Indeed, I have posted before about Hugo's small signal performance - once you get to below -20 dBFS distortion disappears - no enharmonic, no harmonic distortion, and no noise floor modulation as the signal gets smaller. With Dave, it has even more remarkable performance - a noise floor that is measured at -180dB and is completely unchanged from 2.5v RMS output to no signal at all. And the benefit of an analogue character? Much smoother and more natural sound quality, with much better instrument separation and focus. Of course, some people like the sound of digital hardness - the aggression gets superficially confused with detail resolution - but it quickly tires with listening fatigue, and poor timbre variation, as all instruments sound hard, etched and up front. But if you like that sound, then fine, but its not for me.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/766517/chord-electronics-dave/105#post_11698221


Rob Watt claims that his dac's pulse array tech is so special, but it's nothing more than Pulse Width Modulation(another form of sigma delta noise shaping).

Let's see what TI engineers says about PWM tech:

Quote (selected)
The PWM/DAC approach is not new, but performance limitations have historically confined its
use to low-resolution, low-bandwidth applications. The performance of the method relates
directly to the ability of the low-pass filter to remove the high-frequency components of the PWM
signal. Use a filter with too low a cut-off frequency, and DAC bandwidth suffers. Use a filter with
too high a cut-off frequency or with slow stop-band rolloff, and DAC resolution suffers.

source: page 5 of this document
http://www.ti.com/lit/an/spraa88a/spraa88a.pdf


Quote (selected)
Higher Order Low-Pass Filters
Higher order filters offer progressively better stop-band rolloff rates, and hence remove more of
the unwanted ripple in equation (6). However, design complexities associated with thermal drift
and component value variation increase with filter order. Cost and board space consumption
also increases. At some point, an actual DAC chip becomes a better solution.
source: page 10 of the above pdf
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