CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

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Author Topic: Differences between balanced vs single ended headphone/amp/DAC  (Read 7028 times)

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Marvey

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Re: Differences between balanced vs single ended headphone/amp/DAC
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2012, 03:06:49 AM »

That's a matter of debate. The BA, is a single-ended amp, but with both balanced and SE outputs from the output transformers. The balanced seems have more apparent bass extension and detail. Even Craig seems to think so. In any event, the differences, if there any, are not huge.
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fishski13

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Re: Differences between balanced vs single ended headphone/amp/DAC
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2012, 04:09:00 AM »

i do agree with purrin that balanced does give you a slightly more open soundstage.  i heard this difference in a Bijou amp that i converted from unbalanced to balanced as well, but could not do an A/B comparo like i've done with the B22.  keep in mind, these are only 2 different amplifiers, and by no means an exhaustively formulated opinion.
Can it be said that... if you have enough voltage (desktop amps), then it doesn't matter if it's balanced or single ended?  But it does matter for portable amps?

i don't think that the amount of V-swing has much to do with perceived sonic differences between unbalanced and balanced, but rather that both sides of a transducer are being actively driven in a balanced config vs. a passive ground return in unbalanced.  this is assuming that the power supply is sufficiently designed for minimal noise products, and reasonable signal distances.

i've considered that a lot of perceived differences between balanced and unbalanced are due to improperly matched line levels, but since i line level match, i do hear some differences.  i don't consider a SPL meter to be an accurate way of matching levels.  you need a DVM and test tone.  it's time consuming.

another consideration is that some sources may sound different via balanced or unbalanced.  while i tap off my balanced outs on my BM DAC1 with only the hot and ground pins to unbalanced RCAs, in addition to simultaneously tapping off the unbalanced outputs, i can't be assed to compare the differences.  an apathetic audiophile is an oxymoron.




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grev

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Re: Differences between balanced vs single ended headphone/amp/DAC
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2012, 05:45:02 AM »

Noob here, just want to know if there's a particular design that indicates a good amp, that's all. :)
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Tyll Hertsens

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Re: Differences between balanced vs single ended headphone/amp/DAC
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2012, 02:47:08 PM »

I think it's the doubling of the slew rate that makes the difference mostly.  Bridged/balanced/WTFever amps (ones with two separate amps for the +/- signals) also do some cancelation of even order harmonic distortion, but I don't think that matters much.  Getting rid of crosstalk from the common ground in normal headphone wiring might be pretty damned important too.
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grev

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Re: Differences between balanced vs single ended headphone/amp/DAC
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2012, 12:53:28 AM »

I just bought the RX3 online, should have it early next week, I'll see (hear) how the single ended sounds versus the balanced.
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Aravind

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Re: Differences between balanced vs single ended headphone/amp/DAC
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2012, 07:36:40 AM »

I just bought the RX3 online, should have it early next week, I'll see (hear) how the single ended sounds versus the balanced.
That should be interesting...more so if we can get some info on the amp topology...
Also if we can get a comparison of unbalanced vs balanced sources...since it has been claimed to make a difference
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Currawong

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Re: Differences between balanced vs single ended headphone/amp/DAC
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2012, 12:41:05 PM »

Maybe this is why that ALO unit sounds so good, but it literally is the size and weight of a brick.

The L3 is heavier and with both you need another brick for your source too, so they aren't all light. I am impressed with the RX3 though. It's only a touch behind my Phoenix in resolution and dymamics and a touch less smooth in the treble listening at moderate volumes.

I wish I'd thought of it back then, but I wonder what the Audiovalve RKV II I owned would have been like using a balanced output transformer box (it came with an SE one).
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grev

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Re: Differences between balanced vs single ended headphone/amp/DAC
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2012, 09:19:42 PM »

Had a bit of a listen to the RX3 with the CLAS, it does sound very good even comparing to the L3.
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DGCFAD

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Re: Differences between balanced vs single ended headphone/amp/DAC
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2015, 12:55:11 AM »

Please provide your insights about the differences between balanced vs single ended headphone/amp/DAC, both objective and subjective differences...perhaps this topic has been discussed to death in various forums but its difficult to form an opinion as to which is better or worse..
Please forgive me if I break protocol by reviving a dead thread, but as I am new here, I don't really know the community preferences for such things, and I don't really think this was fully answered. That is to say, you have covered the what and the how, but not the why. Ideally, several things are gained by using a balanced connection. Primarily you gain dynamic range and signal to noise ratio, this is due to having a stronger signal vs background noise (interference) and more effective shielding since your shield is not also carrying signal. You can also sometimes gain bandwidth, as shield is prone to skin effect (phase smear) which can limit bandwidth. And on the output side (IE:headphones) you get increased gain, which can be good or bad depending on the efficiency of your headphones. The other consideration is impedance, since the impedance of the headphones is halved amplifiers that have problems with low impedance loads will not perform as well, so as with everything, you are back to testing your specific rig to find which is better, but ideally a balance connection should give you more detail, more dynamics, greater bass control (an aspect of higher current), lower distortion and a lower noise floor.
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Marvey

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Re: Differences between balanced vs single ended headphone/amp/DAC
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2015, 01:13:19 AM »

No prob on reviving this thread. I think this warrants additional discussion. There is balanced / differential signaling (the real definition of balanced) and balanced-bridged-amping. Separate things. I'm coming to the conclusion that the balanced-bridge-amping is not the end all be all. Depends upon topology of course.

One thing that's bugged me is that some people, especially at the summit-fi level, think "balanced" amp automatically means better. More discussion later on this. I had an interesting discussion with Craig on this in regards the headphones and the EC balanced output amps.






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