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Author Topic: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)  (Read 158892 times)

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Deep Funk

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1190 on: April 10, 2014, 09:44:17 AM »

Anaxilus,

I did some searches. Thus here is a link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2232819/Toyota-recalls-2-77million-vehicles-steering-shaft-defect.html
A Daily Mail article.

A simple search in google with these keywords yielded too many results to just call it a rumour:
- Toyota cars loose steering wheel at high speeds

I also found this article and if I were Toyota I would not be happy:
- Michael Dunn on EDN, "Toyota's killer firmware: Bad design and its consequences" published on October 28th 2013.
Link: http://www.edn.com/design/automotive/4423428/1/Toyota-s-killer-firmware--Bad-design-and-its-consequences

Toyota has some PR to do...
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Anaxilus

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1191 on: April 10, 2014, 07:16:12 PM »

I'm not sure that the average car easily hitting 300-400K miles was ever really a thing, short of perhaps the 1st generation LS400 and Acura Legend from the golden age of Japanese build quality, and maybe a few pickup trucks.

Not at all.  Look at all the 90's Corollas still running around all over the world.  It's the most prolific vehicle in use in Afghanistan.  My friends Previa made 300K and some of those are still running around too.

The new and future Volvos look nice I just worry about the influence of the Chinese on the company.  Could be good or bad.
_________
Dude, your links have nothing to do with this recall.  That first steering shaft recall is from 2012 and my 2001 Prius gen was part of it.  Actually my vehicle was outside the range needing the recall which was a top nut that could come loose.

I did your search and only got steering wheel vibrates at high speed.  That could be worn out bushings, worn tires and a bad alignment or even a bad brake job or warped rotor.  There's about 100 reasons your steering wheel could vibrate at high speed on any car.  I haven't seen one report of a steering wheel coming off in your hand at high speeds like you said yesterday.

That's also an old article about people trying to find Toyota's ghosts in the machine.  It's from having too many separate programmers coding and not integrating the complier codes well enough causing an over excess of compiler code that could have poor interactions with each other like stack overflow mentioned in the article.

There has not been one single death attributed to the code.  Every UA case has shown in the black box that the user stepped on the wong pedal.  This was supported by NASA.  The only death was due to a stuck accelerator pedal due to double stacked floor mats on a Lexus loaner vehicle the CHP officer got when he brought his own car in for service.  He didn't check the throttle clearance on the loaner car and didn't know how to shift into neutral.  Plus Toyota already recalled all cars for double stacked floor mats before the incident in question, but the dealer forgot to do their own loaner cars.  Also most of the Lexus owners brought in for the throttle recalls refused to use only one floor mat!!  These people are freaks needing to have two or three floor mats stacked at a time.  I actually know this because my friend iis a Lexus Master Tech not far from the very dealership.  We get all the scuttlebutt on what actually goes on at various places. 

As for PR, Toyota already did it a few years ago (apology to Congress live on TV from Akio Toyoda himself, free included service and maintenance and road side assistance on every Toyota sold, new star safety idiot proof software protocols on every Toyota, etc, etc.). People are taking advantage of GM's high profile mess right now to sneak in various recalls under the radar.  Look at what nissan did that got no press attention (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/03/26/nissan-recall-air-bags-altima-sentra-leaf/6902937/). I would be wary of companies that you don't see an increase in recalls from, they are obviously getting poor advice from their accountants.  If you think all these recalls means Kia, Hyundai, Ford, Chrysler, VW make better cars, good luck with that assumption.
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Anaxilus

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1192 on: April 10, 2014, 07:46:12 PM »

My favorite ghost in the Machine story: http://www.centralbanking.com/central-banking/news/1417873/minister-locked-car-misses-speech-thai-cb

"Suchart Jaovisidha, Thailand's finance minister, was on his way to address central bank officials from around the world when his state-assigned BMW stalled, the Associated Press reported.

"The engine stopped, the air conditioning shut down, the doors got locked and the windows wouldn't roll down," Suchart was quoted as saying.

"We couldn't breathe because there was no air," he added.

To draw attention, the minister and his driver waved frantically at passers-by. The incident ended only after a nearby security guard smashed the car's windows with a sledgehammer.

Even with the heavy-duty tool, Suchart said it took a long time to break the windows as the "glass proved to be very resistant".

The harrowing experience lasted about 10 minutes, he said. "
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funkmeister

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1193 on: April 11, 2014, 09:26:19 PM »

I'm under the impression that car maintenance was more top of mind in the past so we had people like my friend who sent two Oldsmobiles past 300K miles. I think we can still do the same high mileage but we can't be doing that while flooring it and jumping the car then replacing a piece or two. There is a price for efficiency with comfort.
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Anaxilus

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1194 on: April 11, 2014, 10:56:07 PM »

It's not just maintenance.  The world's economy has changed.  The days of over engineered stout cast iron blocks is over.  The amount of disposable income around the developed world is down amongst the middle class, competition is up, raw materials are more scarce and expensive.  Corners are being cut everywhere possible until litigation catches up.  The consumer mindset is different and now programmed in favor of disposable goods and immediate gratification.

My 20 year old Corolla block was built with a cast iron block, forged crankshaft, oil squirters under the pistons, balanced internals, and a windage tray in the oil pan for a motor rated just over 140hp.  Who the hell is going to build a cheap ass Corolla type vehicle these days with those features?  Not only that, how many drivers know what those features are and will ever see benefit from them?  I could have probably just swapped out the head studs and gasket, put on a turbo and made 320+ hp easy with premium octane.  Change the rods and pistons and your probably at 450+ hp with more boost and better gas (maybe 29psi and 100 octane).

The over-engineering from 80's and early 90's Japanese products was insane. 

But yes, maintenance is always big.
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Anaxilus

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1195 on: April 18, 2014, 07:53:32 PM »

So glad Porsche doesn't make anything that makes me lust after.

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raif

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1196 on: April 20, 2014, 08:33:39 AM »

How have I missed this thread!

I have been obsessing on the luxury compact segment the past few months and actually just bought a new 2015 Volvo S60 Drive-E model this morning.  I am a big volvo fan, from the 1980s 240 I drove well into college to the recent, briefly owned 2011 T5 C30, I keep finding myself drawn to the brand.  The c30 was a great car and had all the power and performance I would need for (non road rage induced)daily driving.   However, the slushbox transmission was a big turnoff.

After heading in a different direction and deciding between the Audi A3 or waiting for the pending C-Class refresh, an offhand discussion with a friend brought up the new drive-e models and their new 8-speed transmission.  I had always been a huge fan of the Volvo S60's design, it looks like the car you would take to Rylos to become the last starfighter, and with the new updates to the engine and tranny, it was sort of a no brainer for me.

That being said, if anyone is in the market for a european luxury compact sedan here's what I found in the "around 50k" mark.

2015 Mercedes c300:  If you can get over the "bolted ipad on the dash" look, this car is looking like a great all around winner.  The c300 has the apparently industry standard(in this segment) turbo-4 with about 240ish horsepower, all wheel drive, a burmester sound system option for us audiophiles, a forward looking design, and apparently a new level of refinement for the c-class.  Also, the variable suspension tuning is really cool as I always want more performance, but don't want to deal with a permanent sport suspension when doing the 99% of daily driving that doesn't require it.  Where I live, I see more c and e classes than I do toyotas and hondas.  I know it shouldn't matter... but it kinda does.

Audi A3: This car was a blast to drive.  Though simple, the build and material quality was outstanding.  I actually got very close to getting one of these(or maybe waiting for the s3), but ultimately the road noise and stiffer ride, unavoidable costs of the bigger tires and tighter suspensions that come with performance minded offerings, would grate on me in daily driving scenarios.

Audi A4:  Refresh eminent, doesn't make sense to buy.  Plus for me, this car was much more in the S60 territory of "refinement" vs "performance" and I would rather get the volvo.

BMW 3 series: Save $20K more and get an m3.
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DaveBSC

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1197 on: April 21, 2014, 02:00:37 PM »

How have I missed this thread!

I have been obsessing on the luxury compact segment the past few months and actually just bought a new 2015 Volvo S60 Drive-E model this morning.  I am a big volvo fan, from the 1980s 240 I drove well into college to the recent, briefly owned 2011 T5 C30, I keep finding myself drawn to the brand.  The c30 was a great car and had all the power and performance I would need for (non road rage induced)daily driving.   However, the slushbox transmission was a big turnoff.

After heading in a different direction and deciding between the Audi A3 or waiting for the pending C-Class refresh, an offhand discussion with a friend brought up the new drive-e models and their new 8-speed transmission.  I had always been a huge fan of the Volvo S60's design, it looks like the car you would take to Rylos to become the last starfighter, and with the new updates to the engine and tranny, it was sort of a no brainer for me.

That being said, if anyone is in the market for a european luxury compact sedan here's what I found in the "around 50k" mark.

2015 Mercedes c300:  If you can get over the "bolted ipad on the dash" look, this car is looking like a great all around winner.  The c300 has the apparently industry standard(in this segment) turbo-4 with about 240ish horsepower, all wheel drive, a burmester sound system option for us audiophiles, a forward looking design, and apparently a new level of refinement for the c-class.  Also, the variable suspension tuning is really cool as I always want more performance, but don't want to deal with a permanent sport suspension when doing the 99% of daily driving that doesn't require it.  Where I live, I see more c and e classes than I do toyotas and hondas.  I know it shouldn't matter... but it kinda does.

Audi A3: This car was a blast to drive.  Though simple, the build and material quality was outstanding.  I actually got very close to getting one of these(or maybe waiting for the s3), but ultimately the road noise and stiffer ride, unavoidable costs of the bigger tires and tighter suspensions that come with performance minded offerings, would grate on me in daily driving scenarios.

Audi A4:  Refresh eminent, doesn't make sense to buy.  Plus for me, this car was much more in the S60 territory of "refinement" vs "performance" and I would rather get the volvo.

BMW 3 series: Save $20K more and get an m3.

Nice. I also just bought an S60, though a '13. The new LCD IP and engines are neat, but with AWD you still get the old powertrain (for now) anyway, and the rest is very similar. The discount was just too big to ignore.

This generation A4 IMO has been largely a disappointment. The interior design is bland overall, and both the upper and lower center stack are really low rent compared to just about everything else in the class short of the outgoing Acuras. Audi got lucky that the just retired C-class was basically awful pre-refresh, and only competitive post the mid-cycle update. The new C-class looks gorgeous and doesn't seem to have pulled any punches. No more bargain basement interior, no more re-heated leftover engines. The S4 is a nice car, but the next A4 really needs to step it up.

The F30 3-series also may be in some real trouble. It's fine, but it struggles to really feel like a luxury product compared to the 5. It also could definitely use an M335i variant. Maybe they should worry about that instead of making the X4 to slot "between" the 3 series GT and X3.

I have to sa y though, all of the journalists that are whining that BMWs aren't the ultimate driving machines that they once were should go out and drive some of the ones people actually buy, vs. the loaded press cars. I was recently in a 2010 E60 535xi, the standard (non-sport) version that probably comprised at least 80% of cars actually sold. Man what a BORE fest. Buick light steering with about as much feel, and shockingly poor on center response. That was supposed to be the "fun" 5 series before it got soft in the current gen. Maybe the sport version was, but that certainly wasn't. 
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DaveBSC

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1198 on: April 21, 2014, 02:21:22 PM »

So glad Porsche doesn't make anything that makes me lust after.

Interesting that he's still considering getting a replacement 911 instead of something else. There's definitely a cult around that brand, PNA wouldn't be able to get away with their usual attitude otherwise.
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Anaxilus

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1199 on: April 22, 2014, 09:07:33 PM »

LOL!  Think of all the babes you could get Maxie.

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"If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading." - Lao Tzu

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