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Author Topic: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)  (Read 158892 times)

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Anaxilus

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1110 on: November 05, 2013, 07:43:40 AM »

The 07 Camry was the last gen, not the current one.  The current one is getting long in the tooth now, but when it came out, the SE V6 bitch slapped the last Accord around a bit.

A long term tranny issue is not part of the PDI process as you know.  A $100,000 AMG MB engine failing or blowing is not part of the PDI process either.  What PDI tells us though is whether a customer taking new delivery of a vehicle can have a reasonable expectation of things to work as intended based on confirmation of initial QC.  IF one full side of a car's electrical system doesn't work, or the light arrive w/ burned out LEDs, I have very little faith in having a trouble free, long term relationship w/ that car.  Who knows, one of BMWs 22 ECUs could decide to lock me in my 7 series and try to suffocate me to death like the Singoporean cabinet members.

Whoever the Avalon market is, they are selling just fine so I wouldn't worry.  I actually agree with you about the new rear seats, they seem less complaint than the last gen.  Maybe they want people just pony up a bit extra and grab an ES which is a car I think they nailed for an entry level luxury cruiser.

What is this shit you keep talking about the RX?  Two of my friends have the ones around 2005-2009.  I have spent a lot of time in both and have never run into these 'cheap shiny plastics' or sharp edges?  Where are these sharp edges?  Are you humping the fender well?  There are no shiny plastics on the dash.



I actually like Audi more than the other German brands but I keep seeing mixed reports of reliability and long term owner satisfaction.  So I'm not quite sure yet.  Especially if VW is pulling the strings.  At least unlike VW and Porsche, you CAN left foot brake an Audi and the steering paddles don't feel like Logitech.  I think I might be more inclined to take a chance on Tesla's upcoming AWD S unless Lexus produces a homerun type F-sport Hydrogen vehicle beyond 2016.  Till then I'm content to use my Legacy GT as a beater when I don't want to expose my other cars to harsher environments.

For some reason, the S7/RS7 seems to speak more to me than the S4.  Don't like the farty exhaust note though.



Though this GS450H autobahn vid makes me lol more at 270 kph:
Not bad for a piece of shit hybrid.   ;)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 08:18:50 AM by Anaxilus »
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DaveBSC

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1111 on: November 06, 2013, 04:53:06 PM »

What is this shit you keep talking about the RX?  Two of my friends have the ones around 2005-2009.  I have spent a lot of time in both and have never run into these 'cheap shiny plastics' or sharp edges?  Where are these sharp edges?  Are you humping the fender well?  There are no shiny plastics on the dash.



I actually like Audi more than the other German brands but I keep seeing mixed reports of reliability and long term owner satisfaction.  So I'm not quite sure yet.  Especially if VW is pulling the strings.  At least unlike VW and Porsche, you CAN left foot brake an Audi and the steering paddles don't feel like Logitech.  I think I might be more inclined to take a chance on Tesla's upcoming AWD S unless Lexus produces a homerun type F-sport Hydrogen vehicle beyond 2016.  Till then I'm content to use my Legacy GT as a beater when I don't want to expose my other cars to harsher environments.

For some reason, the S7/RS7 seems to speak more to me than the S4.  Don't like the farty exhaust note though.

That's not the RX I'm talking about. The second gen, 2004-2009 RX330/350 was IMO the best one they've made to date. The interior was a huge improvement over the extremely mediocre first generation RX, and they solved the engine/front suspension layout problem from the first one that created that humongous 41ft turning circle while managing to keep the excellent use of interior space and overall packaging, plus the tidy curb weight for the segment. It's not a car that I would buy for myself, but it was an impressively engineered product, no question, and it was extremely competitive at the time.

I'm talking about the current one, 2010+ gen 3. The current one is a piece of shit. They larded it up with an extra 500lbs. of useless fat over the 2004, with no more passenger space, and cargo volume actually went DOWN, at least according to the figures on new car test drive. Where'd all the weight go? Are there some engineers trapped under the chassis? The interior in the current one is a big step down over the  04-09, that's where the shiny hard plastics and shitty bits are. Plus the design is just a god awful mess. If you sit in a new Benz ML and then go straight into an RX, you feel like you're sitting in one of those little pedal cars for kids.



According to CR, Lexus, Toyota, and Acura take 1, 2, and 3 for brand reliability. Not a surprise. What may surprise you is who got #4 this year: Audi. Up 22 spots in the last two years. All of the German brands were pretty terrible in the '90s through mid '00s. Mercedes through massive cost cuts and all of the damage that the Chrysler merger and split caused, and BMW and Audi because of a rush to develop and rollout loads of new electronic and computer based features, many of which were not quite ready for prime time (iDrive gen 1 and 2, MMI gen 1, etc) plus just some boneheaded engineering on BMW and Audi's part: HPFPs, coil packs, water pumps, etc.

That said, while BMW seems to be doing decently better in the last couple of years, Audi and Mercedes seem to be doing WAY better as the latest figures in CR and JD power suggest. COMAND is not at the level of the latest iDrive and MMI systems, but it's not exploding in a fireball like MFT either.

What's as important to me as PDI success rate s and reliability index scores is how a brand stands behind their product, and I don't get the sense that Audi USA has the incredible arrogance that Porsche does. As I said, if your Porsche is 4+ years old and you have a problem, even if it's a blatantly obvious design flaw with the car, you can fuck off and die. Audi really can't afford to act that way - they're selling Q5s and A4s in some real numbers now, but they are still the scrappy underdog with a fraction of the total sales of BMW and Mercedes - who both sell cars with AWD systems in almost every category that Audi does. If Audi stonewalls on warranty claims or otherwise pisses off their customers, they won't be back.

They lost a massive amount of customers after the UA hit piece in the '80s, and then lost a bunch more in the '90s after their B6 gen A4s and C5 gen A6s needed constant fixing either because they were electronic basket cases or because of faulty 1.8T motors or whatever else. I think they know that if they want to truly ascend to first tier status, that can't happen again.

Of course it's hard to say how the current crop of cars will be holding up ten years from now, and there were definite teething issues with the current B8 gen A4 at launch which had control arm problems, but they didn't pull a Porsche and just pretend the problem didn't exist - they fixed it. 

I'm really not much of a fan of VW, I think the Scirocco R looks cool, but that's about it. Fortunately the gulf between VW and Audi is fairly wide. Everything from the A4 up and the Q5 is on a dedicated Audi longitudinal platform, with an Audi AWD system and Audi electronics and components. Audi is allowed to operate fairly independently, and that's most likely why their stuff is so much better than the rest of the VWAG brands. We've seen what happens when VW tries to make an Audi - the Phaeton. It sucked.   

The Q7 is the odd duck, it's on the VW PL71 platform with the Toureg and the Cayenne, and unlike the other two, still in its first generation. I imagine the second gen will probably divorce from the VW and Porsche and switch to Audi's new MLP platform.

I prefer the S6 to the S4, mostly because the A4 is getting pretty old and I never was that in love with it to begin with. The S7 is a cool car, but I prefer the S6's more traditional driving position. Both will lose on a track to an M5 Competition or E63 AMG S, no question about that. BUT, after a trip to APR, the S6/S7 will have 480HP and 460Ft.Lbs at the wheels, will hit 60 in around 3.5 seconds, and will go through the quarter in the 11s at close to 120mph. The M and the AMG aren't any faster.


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Anaxilus

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1112 on: November 06, 2013, 10:34:45 PM »

Oh I know Audi is up to #4 now.  I'm just waiting to see if it can repeat or improve.  I still remember the shock of seeing Ford pull itself up to #5 only to drop 15-20 spots the next couple years.  One year of positive perceive reliability isn't enough for me yet after contemplating a Ford product not too long ago.

Added weight is easy to explain w/ less cargo room.  More steel and equipment needed for new safety regs and crash tests add weight and consume space.  More luxury and electronics perhaps as well.  Obviously the current RX is a successive model that falls into evolution rather than revolution.  I'm actually only showing an increase of 178lbs over 2009 and 340lbs over 2004.  So even the 2009 added 160lbs onto the same 2004 model over the course of its lifespan.
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Anaxilus

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1113 on: November 12, 2013, 08:54:01 AM »

Latest sales deltas.  Poor Avalon... :)p8

Highlights (sales up > 40%)

Chevrolet Malibu up 64%
Dodge Charger up 60%
Ford Fusion up 71%
Honda Civic Hybrid up 146%
Land Rover Range Rover up 194%
Lexus IS up 69%
Lincoln MKZ up 80%
Mazda Mazda6 up 105%
Nissan Pathfinder up 90%
Subaru Forester up 137%
Toyota Avalon up 266%

Read more: http://www.leftlanenews.com/october-2013-new-car-sales.html#ixzz2kQ4EQMVu

So Subaru sold more cars than VW in the US last month?!

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DaveBSC

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1114 on: November 13, 2013, 02:44:18 AM »

Up 266% from what? The real question is market share, not the percentage bump vs an old model. That said, I do admit to seeing a few of the new ones around, whereas I can't remember seeing the last one. Interior wise I prefer the Avalon to the ES, and not just because of the lack of remote touch. The ES/GS/LS look just doesn't do it for me, at all.

I'd rank the luxury brands in terms of interiors as follows: M-B (ex C-class), BMW, Audi, Cadillac, Lexus, Infiniti. I lump Acura in with Volvo, they don't count. The Designo spec MB interiors in the E and ML up are pretty spectacular. They've come a LONG way since the garbage interiors of the early 2000s.

In the past BMW would get the big picture right while missing all of the small details - things like AC vents with no weight to the adjustment, making them feel like they cost 5 cents. Audi was the opposite, they'd nail those small details while making huge errors like not putting the armrest anywhere near your arm. Both are improving, but I think BMW has been more successful with their latest.

In terms of materials Cadillac is now competitive with the best. Two things are holding them back: CUE, and the fact that they can't design an IP cluster to save their lives. A new CTS with something like iDrive and knobs for the controls, and gauges that didn't look like something out of a '90s Buick would be unstoppable.
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Anaxilus

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1115 on: November 16, 2013, 06:42:57 AM »

No way I'd put BMW or Cadillac interiors up w/ Lexus, not a chance.  IS, GS, LS slaughter the Caddy, BMW competitors in luxury.  Many reviewers consider the new Lexi better than many current Audis which have become rather pedestrian.  Cadillac is better but still has a ways to go.  Ill fitting seems, cheap plastic, noxious paint fumes from the cheap leather, poor stitching.  BMW is on par w/ Acura now, finally, again.
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DaveBSC

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1116 on: November 16, 2013, 05:35:46 PM »

No way I'd put BMW or Cadillac interiors up w/ Lexus, not a chance.  IS, GS, LS slaughter the Caddy, BMW competitors in luxury.  Many reviewers consider the new Lexi better than many current Audis which have become rather pedestrian.  Cadillac is better but still has a ways to go.  Ill fitting seems, cheap plastic, noxious paint fumes from the cheap leather, poor stitching.  BMW is on par w/ Acura now, finally, again.

I admire the gutsy move with the IS interior design, but I don't find it especially luxurious, but I'm not sure ANY car in that segment is particularly luxurious if I'm honest. The 3 is ok, C-class is meh, A4 blah. Visually at least the ATS is in league with any of them, but I admit I haven't really spent time in one.

To me the GS interior looks like a cheap copy of the F10 5 series, and the LS interior looks like what it is, GS design ques shoehorned into an old car that wasn't designed for them. I prefer the LS pre-refresh, but even then it looked really, really dull compared to an A8, and the new S makes it look like a Hyundai Equus in comparison. I don't particularly care for the 7 series, never have. The 7 has always seemed to me to be much like the C-class is for Mercedes, a half-hearted "we've gotta make one to compete" effort that they don't care that much about doing particularly well.

I don't like the XJ, but like the IS I admire the effort put in to make it seem like a bespoke luxury product. The LS has none of that, it's just the big Lexus. You buy one because it's cheaper than the Germans, and it's less likely to break. Otherwise there's no reason.
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Maxvla

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1117 on: November 30, 2013, 11:00:20 PM »

So I had sorta taken a break from the car thing, but now my key fobs both don't work, a headlight burned out last night and it needs another oil change so it got me thinking about it some. Also had a customer come into my shop I know pretty well, but hadn't seen in a while. He was driving a 2013 Leaf top of the line he had leased a few months ago. I mention his car and he says he loves it, but will be trying to swap the lease in a few months as his older Yukon is having problems and he will need to free up cash to get a new one of those. So when the time comes I will consider taking over his lease for the last 16-18 months.

I don't know anything about his lease right now, so I haven't committed, of course, but told him to give me a call when he wants to move it. The only thing I do know is he mentioned the payment was about $329 which is a bit much for me, considering what it is, so we will see. I don't remember what lease terms the dealer was giving me on a base model, I think $235-250 a month and I walked out on them.
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Anaxilus

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1118 on: December 15, 2013, 06:29:35 PM »

Interesting how Chevy and Nissan have led the way in driver deaths/million each of the last four years.

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/the-10-deadliest-vehicles-on-the-road.html/?a=viewall
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DaveBSC

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1119 on: December 16, 2013, 10:02:23 PM »

Good on Mercedes for giving this class the swift kick in the ass that it's needed for years. The so called "first tier" brands have been just barely treading water above Volvo and Acura in their entry level interiors for a good decade, M-B included. Not the new C-class. The whole segment has now been reordered to: 2015 C-class, the rest. As with the new S-class, I'm sure the engineers in Munich and Ingolstadt are shitting their pants about now. The new C makes the A4 look like a Polo diesel on the inside, and the IS and Q ne G just became a glorified Corolla and Sentra. So much for the "cheap class" Benz.

The C also used to be where MB would dump its oldest tech, bottom of the barrel engines. That's all over with as well. The base C300 turbo four and the new C400 twin turbo V6 already beat everybody else, and whatever they do with the next C63 AMG, it will likely be a rocket ship. It's also some 220lbs lighter than the previous car, and will have standard and sport suspensions with adjustable dampers, plus an Airmatic option. The C400 4Matic just may have my name on it, which marks the first time I've ever really thought about buying a C-class.





« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 10:19:54 PM by DaveBSC »
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