CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

  • December 31, 2015, 10:05:57 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 82 83 84 85 86 [87] 88 89 90 91 92 ... 158

Author Topic: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)  (Read 158892 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Anaxilus.

  • Dikus Beligerantis Analmorticus
  • Pirate
  • **
  • Brownie Points: +65535/-65535
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 577
Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #860 on: May 02, 2013, 07:27:23 PM »

It's not 'beating the odds'.  California is the car mecca of the world.  Tesla is HQ'd in Fremont.  Automakers cater to us fairweather fans here, they know quite well what we want.  A Vegas jaunt is the benchmark range determiner atm along w/ a normal commute in and out of the city of LA.
_____


Jag cancelled it's turbine hybrid btw.  Turbines have a host of problems and only suitable for deep pockets.  Take it from someone who lived w/ them for over 6 years.
Logged
If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading - Lao Tzu

DaveBSC

  • Best Korean Sympathizer
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +222/-50
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2092
Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #861 on: May 02, 2013, 09:20:10 PM »

Another possibility instead of a gas turbine would be a diesel electric, kind of like the Top Gear Hammerhead Eagle i-Thrust, but you know, one that works.

Logged

Maxvla

  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +211/-12
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1251
Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #862 on: May 02, 2013, 10:33:23 PM »

I actually liked the general proportions of that thing. Sort of smaller lowered Ford Flex. Pretty cool imo.
Logged

catscratch

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Powder Monkey
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +15/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 91
  • Fun Sucks
Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #863 on: May 02, 2013, 11:12:56 PM »

Well IIRC CAFE regulations will mandate a weighted 55mpg average by 2025. There are two realistic ways to reach that goal: small displacement diesels, like what nearly all of Europe drives, and range extended electrics. With diesel you have the issues of sulfur emissions - which can probably be solved - and a stigma in the States against buying diesels of any kind - which is slowly going away. Range extended electrics have major advantages in terms of potential handling - put a motor in each wheel, and you can control power and torque going to each wheel independently and even engine brake when you need to. You no longer need differentials, and your suspension setup can be a whole lot simpler. The latest SLS AMG Electric demonstrates what is possible, and I think this is definitely the way to go for efficient performance cars. Put in a tiny diesel generator, and you have a very realistic car. BMW's i brand, despite the awful name, seems to be hedging its bets on that. Plus, the torque characteristics of electric motors make them very suitable for heavier-duty cars like trucks and vans, and even for off-roaders, the ability to engine-brake means you don't need a low range gearbox or even a gearbox of any kind period. Electric drive is very attractive for a lot of reasons.

But, pure electric fails for the obvious range reason, but also because you need an enclosed garage to store the car in where it could be charged. Keeping a car on the street and charging it every night with an extender cable out in public is not realistic. Pure electrics are suitable for only a small portion of the public, and throw in range anxiety and you have what from a business standpoint seems like a losing proposition for a volume manufacturer. Yes, there will be niche pure EVs, and yes, you can make an EV handle really well - the center of gravity can be a lot lower than in any IC car - but as of right now, manufacturers are abandoning the idea of a pure EV as a mass-market car. People aren't buying them, and the much promised battery breakthroughs aren't happening. Time is running out for manufacturers, and they have to bet on existing technologies to meet upcoming emissions demands, not bet on future breakthroughs that may not happen.

Also, I think manufacturers are realizing that hubris will not sell. You can't tell people what they want. People will tell you what they want, and if you don't make what they want, nobody will buy your cars. What's more, you create a market niche for somebody to come and build what people want, and they'll make a killing while you lose money.

Bit of a rant, maybe. We're at a crossroads: either the CAFE regulations will be repealed (I hope so), manufacturers will figure out a way to make exciting, interesting cars that meet said regulations and sell well (reasonably possible) or manufacturers are forced into a second energy crisis like the the 70s, make boring new cars that sell like ass, and more companies file for chapter 11. This is also reasonably possible. I think we'll see a mix of option 2 and option 3.

Lastly, keep in mind that the last days of an old technology are always better than the first days of a new technology. Just look at the Doble Model E, and compare it to what else was out there in 1925. Yes, EVs aren't new, and even hybrids and range-extended EVs aren't new (look up the 1913 Owen Magnetic), and back in the day (1900-1920 or so) NYC had charging stations for electric cars at every intersection. Even so, EVs and hybrids are barely developed compared to IC and there is a ton of room for improvement.
Logged

catscratch

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Powder Monkey
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +15/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 91
  • Fun Sucks
Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #864 on: May 02, 2013, 11:15:28 PM »

Also, this:



There is a ton of room left in IC engines for development too. You can bet your ass that not only Koenigsegg is working on this tech, and the first company to bring it to market en masse will make a huge killing. Toss in an electric supercharger or something similar and you have complete control over everything that the engine is doing.
Logged

Maxvla

  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +211/-12
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1251
Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #865 on: May 02, 2013, 11:43:41 PM »

What do you mean people aren't buying EVs? The Leaf is selling 2000 a month in the US and Nissan can't make them fast enough to keep up with demand. The dealer fleet of Leafs right now is about 2600 nationwide. Compare to even the Volt which has a dealer fleet of about 9000 and only selling 1200-1500 a month.

Sure these aren't Honda Accord 35,000 per month numbers, but the cars being made are selling as fast as they can be.
Logged

Anaxilus.

  • Dikus Beligerantis Analmorticus
  • Pirate
  • **
  • Brownie Points: +65535/-65535
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 577
Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #866 on: May 03, 2013, 05:04:33 AM »

Dave is talking about this: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/28/us-nissan-leaf-idUSBRE88R1D620120928


Sales were down for a bit but have bounced back a bit the last few months for Nissan.  The Volt is a disaster so far, let's see what happens when they skin it a Cadillac.


There was a rough patch between the Leaf capacity issue, Fisker fires and lies the NYT spread about the Tesla.  People just didn't want to deal with it during that stretch.
Logged
If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading - Lao Tzu

Maxvla

  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +211/-12
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1251
Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #867 on: May 03, 2013, 06:07:36 AM »

Some bad press, but I don't think the cars themselves were bad. There are some definite improvements in the 2013 model and I'm glad I was unaware of it until these came out. Had I found the Leaf with a decent lease when this whole thread started last year I would be stuck for at least another year, more likely 2, in a Leaf that wasn't as good. Strongly considering a fully TOTL Leaf SL with premium package, but we'll see what the numbers say.
Logged

Maxvla

  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +211/-12
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1251
Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #868 on: May 04, 2013, 07:31:27 AM »

The next car for Tesla after the Model X is the Model C, a car that should be a 3 or 5 door (5 door more likely here in US) hatchback priced around $40k MSRP (in current dollars, likely more with inflation by then) with a range of 150 miles. The car isn't due til 2017-2020 and is merely a set of sketches right now. It will be built on the same platform as the S and X, but will be rather short (150-160"), with small hangovers. It should have a next generation (or two) battery system and whatever else is improved from now until then. I really hope this car comes out instead of being left on the easel. 2-3 Leaf leases would carry me until then. I really like the design language and the company approach of Tesla including educating potential buyers with sales staff not paid by commission. Their efforts to bypass dealer franchise laws are great to read about as well.

Here are some guesses at what it might look like, including some funky sliding doors. The Model X has some crazy doors as well in the form of wings, and those apparently are going into production like that, so who knows about some sliding doors on a Model C.






Future looks great. Can't wait to drive it.
Logged

Anaxilus.

  • Dikus Beligerantis Analmorticus
  • Pirate
  • **
  • Brownie Points: +65535/-65535
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 577
Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #869 on: May 04, 2013, 09:25:29 AM »

Lol, not with those hinges.  People will trip going out the door and kill themselves.  It would not hold up well over time and likely weigh and cost too much to implement.  Look at all the weight and torque that would be generated on that single hinge.  Now you are going to tell me it's going to stand up to daily use for the life of the vehicle?  No way.  That design won't even support a LED TV well enough without bending and flexing.  Plus that massive, ridiculous hinge would be taking up space where the battery pack should go.  Scissors make more sense.
Logged
If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading - Lao Tzu
Pages: 1 ... 82 83 84 85 86 [87] 88 89 90 91 92 ... 158