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Author Topic: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)  (Read 158892 times)

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DaveBSC

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #760 on: April 17, 2013, 04:52:05 PM »

CPO 528i looks to be selling around $27-35k. Where are you seeing them for $20k? Also, I have to go back to like 2008-2009 models to even crack $30k. 2008 is only 2 years newer than my current car.. I kind of want something new-ish.

Oh and Mike - Are you saying turbo cars heat up quicker than NA? I did some research after you posted that. Looks like you may be right about the engine, but people suggest giving the turbo a few minutes before you drive anywhere so that oil will get to it.

Around here you can get a CPO '10 528i for around $25, regular ones are closer to $20. A '10 would still be under factory warranty, and sometimes you can get dealers to add on the extended warranty. Combine that with a thorough inspection and you've basically got the equivalent of a CPO car.

I have twin turbos in my A6 (2.7T). There's an engine coolant gauge and an oil temp gauge. The engine coolant reaches normal range after a few minutes. The oil temp gauge takes longer to come off the cold peg.. maybe about 8-12 minutes, it varies hugely by the temperature outside. The general advice from the Audi intelligentsia is that driving the car around normally and turning the engine off after a short trip is perfectly fine, you just don't want to really boot it (5,000RPM+) until that oil temp needle starts to move.

At the other end, you don't want to run the car hard and then immediately stop and turn the engine off. For a < 1 hour typical drive the time spent mostly idling around a parking lot or residential street and driveway is enough time for the turbos to cool off safely. For 2+ hour drives its a good idea to let the engine idle for a couple of minutes in park. What I usually do after a long drive is park, put everything away, get the suitcases or bags out, then shut off the engine.
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shipsupt

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #761 on: April 17, 2013, 06:06:48 PM »



Around here you can get a CPO '10 528i for around $25, regular ones are closer to $20. A '10 would still be under factory warranty, and sometimes you can get dealers to add on the extended warranty. Combine that with a thorough inspection and you've basically got the equivalent of a CPO car.

I have twin turbos in my A6 (2.7T). There's an engine coolant gauge and an oil temp gauge. The engine coolant reaches normal range after a few minutes. The oil temp gauge takes longer to come off the cold peg.. maybe about 8-12 minutes, it varies hugely by the temperature outside. The general advice from the Audi intelligentsia is that driving the car around normally and turning the engine off after a short trip is perfectly fine, you just don't want to really boot it (5,000RPM+) until that oil temp needle starts to move.

At the other end, you don't want to run the car hard and then immediately stop and turn the engine off. For a < 1 hour typical drive the time spent mostly idling around a parking lot or residential street and driveway is enough time for the turbos to cool off safely. For 2+ hour drives its a good idea to let the engine idle for a couple of minutes in park. What I usually do after a long drive is park, put everything away, get the suitcases or bags out, then shut off the engine.

This is pretty good practice, and I follow similar procedures just because I like to take care of my stuff. 

That said, with modern central water cooled turbo cases you're not going to get any oil coking from heat soak unless you've really been pushing hard; think track temerperatures, not a long drive.



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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Anaxilus.

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #762 on: April 17, 2013, 08:26:00 PM »

Long freeway drives are actually better than fast city driving because of constant ambient cooling at speed.  Hard stop start driving is the worst apart from tracking.

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DaveBSC

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #763 on: April 17, 2013, 09:26:03 PM »

This is pretty good practice, and I follow similar procedures just because I like to take care of my stuff. 

That said, with modern central water cooled turbo cases you're not going to get any oil coking from heat soak unless you've really been pushing hard; think track temerperatures, not a long drive.

It also depends on how much boost pressure you're running. Mine is the S-line variant that runs a bit more boost than any other 2.7 based car sold here, up from 250/254 to 265/280, but the difference is small enough to not really matter. I've seen people replace the K03 turbos with RS spec K04s and replace most of the plumbing to create something a lot closer to the Cosworth massaged B5 RS4 engine. That made 375hp from the factory, but some have pushed the 2.7 much higher than that. Obviously in those sorts of cases you have to be much more careful - that's what turbo timers are for.

Interestingly, the new supercharged 3.0T is even easier to push than the old turbo. It doesn't take much more than an ECU flash for it to be able to catch the latest and greatest RS.



Chris comes to an interesting conclusion BTW and I think he's right. Audi kept the V8 S5 around as long as they could because the NA V8 4.2 is so nice to use and sounds so good, but ultimately relented and put in the 3.0T which is just as fast and vastly more efficient. The next RS4 and RS5 will probably do the same thing - slot in the 4.0T from the S6/7/8 with even more power. I just hope they're able to keep some of the noise. BMW having to play "V8 sounds" through the speakers in the M5 is a big bag of fail.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 09:46:11 PM by DaveBSC »
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Maxvla

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #764 on: April 18, 2013, 02:32:12 AM »

Been looking at the Minis again. While a non-S hardtop at 2500lbs is probably fun to drive, I don't know if I can deal with a 2 door knowing I'll be using the back seat more soon. It starts at $20k and is ~$23k before I'm done with it. Looking at the Countryman (4 door) the weight climbs drastically to 3050lbs (Golf type weight and length) and people say the non-S feels sluggish. The Countryman S, which is said to retain most of the hardtop's go-kart style drive, starts pretty high at $26k and goes to ~$29k before I'm finished configuring it.

For the lack of durability, and a doable 4 door starting so expensive, I don't think a Mini would be wise, even though I really like their drive and proportions. Their interiors are weird, but not too bad, I guess quirky is the best word for them.

-

Another car I had considered recently without disclosing it is the upcoming (Summer-Fall 2013) 2014 Ford Fiesta ST:





Manual only 182hp 5 door and starts at $21,400. There's not many options, and I'd take none except perhaps the painted wheels ($375) and a premium color ($595). The Recaro seats being $2K is really steep considering it's 10% of the cost of the entire car. The large grille is bothersome, but it's Aston roots aren't as evident here as with the Fusion.

This ends up being between the Mini Hardtop non-S (146" 123hp 2600lb) @ $23k configured, Fiesta ST (160" 182hp 2700lb) @ 23K configured, and a VW GTI (166" 200hp 3100lb) @ 25.3K configured. The Mini and VW are certainly the more plush and refined. The Ford and VW are more powerful, but I should think the Mini despite the power is nearly as good or perhaps just as good for fun driving. The VW is significantly heavier but is the most plush and probably the quietest inside. I like the Ford's dash layout, though the gauges are not my favorite. The Mini dash is my least favorite, with the VW the best. Reliability, as ironic as it sounds, probably lies with the Ford. Mini wins fuel economy with Ford in the middle and VW in last. Mini lacks 2 doors for easy backseat access, possibly a deal breaker, the other 2 have the extra doors and more space in the back seat as well as more cargo space.

The Fiesta looks like a solid car for my needs. 4 doors, light, somewhat powerful, sport tuned suspension for a more fun street ride, and is the best value, IMO. I'll have to go check one out when the start showing up on lots.

Those are my thoughts on smaller affordable sporty cars.

I suppose a BRZ/FR-S is still possible, but 2 door and small back seats...
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 03:32:39 AM by Maxvla »
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DaveBSC

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #765 on: April 18, 2013, 03:33:02 AM »

For what it's worth, the one person I know who had a Mini absolutely hated it. TOTAL piece of junk. I've also been watching CNet's Car Tech videos since they started doing them in 2005. Since that time they've had precisely one car fail on them during a video shoot out of hundreds of cars tested - a Mini Countryman. Combine that with the doofy, cheap interiors and I remain thoroughly unimpressed by all things Mini.

http://reviews.cnet.com/wagon/2011-mini-cooper-countryman/4505-10866_7-34544855.html
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #766 on: April 18, 2013, 04:08:05 AM »

Countryman is the size of a normal Prius, it's a freaking whale.  Minis are built like crap.  Montoya can afford to dispose of them at will, plus he has a pit crew.
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Maxvla

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #767 on: April 18, 2013, 04:40:48 AM »

Any thoughts on the Fiesta? My leading candidate if I go small and sporty.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #768 on: April 18, 2013, 06:02:56 AM »

Early tests of the Fiesta ST I've seen have been very positive. Reliability is a question mark, but at least the ST wont have the dual-clutch SMG which has been a major sore spot in the standard car and the Focus. Neither the first year Fiesta or Focus are holding up especially well, but the '12s are better. Whether that lasts remains to be seen. The other big negative on the Fiesta is that it uses the ABS system as a "virtual" limited slip diff. That means in any sustained hard driving the brakes are going to take some serious punishment, and brakes are not something Ford usually does especially well.

Civic Si maybe? The 2012 was a bit crap, but they mostly fixed all of that. Assuming you can get past the "we love the '80s!" dash, the looks and materials are now up to par. It's still not quite a GTI or Focus ST, but it should be able to stick around for the long haul.
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Maxvla

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #769 on: April 18, 2013, 07:56:24 AM »

I'm aware of the electric limited slip. It's not a concern as I don't foresee it engaging all that much. I'm mostly looking for a car that I can take fast circular on/off ramps or twisty back roads without worrying about scratching my side mirrors on the asphalt from the body roll in my current car. When I test drove the Mini S I took a circular off ramp faster than I ever have in my Grand Prix and it stayed almost level, that was fun. The GTI performed well in this situation also, but still felt like I was driving a heavy car and it wasn't wanting to turn as easily as the Mini.

The reason I got so interested in diesels is the light to light feel is phenomenal. Tons of torque at low rpm gives that feeling of speed even when you are barely moving. The Golf TDI had similar suspension to the GTI plus it had the diesel feel, so I was really in love, but the price seemed high for a small car and there was the reliability of VW and especially of the Bosch HPFP that kept me away.

My recent posting about realizing I should go less sport more mid-size for utility leads me to cars like the Mazda 6 and the Accord Sport. A trade off on the go kart handling for the space and ride as well as interior quality (in most cases), while still having a somewhat tighter handling car that weighs 400-500lbs less than my current and is double the fuel efficiency, regardless of my gas usage.

I think if I'm going to go bigger than a hatchback, it will be for the less sporty mid-size option. I'm not interested in a Civic Si (180" 3000lbs) or similar where the bigger car sacrifices quality and utility for performance because of what Mike described. You can't enjoy a car like those on streets like you can a MR-2 or GTI or Miata. If you can't enjoy a sporty car on the street and you have no intention of tracking it, it's useless, especially if there were sacrifices to quality or utility. I think I will have to narrow down both the small sporty and the mid-size less sporty to one car each and then have a showdown to see what is most important.

I need to go to a dealer to check out the Accord and also run through the mid-size class for alternatives other than Mazda. I've already narrowed the small sporty class down to 3, of which I've tested 2.

Don't mean to ramble, this thread is sort of my version of Romy's diary. A place I can collect my thoughts and get advice. It's cool that others have posted their own topics from time to time, I enjoy the variety.

These days a car (Accord Sport) with a 0-60 time of 6.7 is no longer considered a sports car, and it's done with 4 doors, usable back seats and a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder designed for fuel economy. Modern cars really are amazing. That's a full 2 seconds faster than my 2006 with a V6.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 08:05:22 AM by Maxvla »
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