What about a C-Max hybrid?

The guy is caught up in decades old stereotypes of diesel engines and obviously does not really understand today's technology... and he appears to be the expert on that forum.  Well, not that different from audio forums... 

Well if anyone is in need of some laughs or something to eat with.. here it is: http://www.rx8club.com/general-automotive-49/mazda-diesel-skyactiv-engine-oil-level-issues-help-here-241177/page2/#post4457851

I summarized my plight, asked a simple question that was not (as he later states) answered in the thread previously, received jibberish for an answer, and in the end I've crossed Mazda off my list of future purchases.

edit: LOL he even closed the thread now. Must be nice to be a super moderator to get the last word in. Poor guy needs it since he can't remember what was said in the post he is replying to.

Looked at the Energi version a bit ago and it looked nice and was well reviewed by Csaba Csere of C&D. I'll look into the Hybrid version, but it starts of right at the tip of my budget.

I've seen Prius' in person though while the dealership was closed so I could only look through windows. The Prius C is a good size, but the interior is really bad. Starting at just under $19k is nice though, especially for a hybrid (of any kind). If it does the rubber bandy effect like the CR-Z did, I might disqualify it right there. Will do some more research on this too. About the same price point as a Cruze Eco manual that is once again relevant to my interests.

edit: Just noticed the Honda Insight is similarly priced. Will check that too.

Keep in mind that Honda's IMA hybrid tech sucks. The engine can't be completely decoupled from the drive system so it's pretty much always running, which eats up a massive amount of the usual hybrid fuel savings. The base C-Max starts at about $27K or so. I've left out the Prius because as you've said the interiors are awful and they are also terrible to drive. The Prius is pretty much for the person that doesn't give a shit one iota about cars or driving enjoyment - just get me the maximum MPG please, thanks.

You might want to look at something like a '10 or '11 Fusion hybrid. Those go for about $20K. They also had the first gen Sync system, which MFT is still trying to catch up to in terms of ease of use and reliability. The interior design is a bit old fashioned but it works much better than the minivan/spaceship Prius look, and the seats are VASTLY more comfortable than anything in the Toyota stable short of maybe the new Avalon which I haven't been in. Most Toyota seats are about as comfortable as a prostate exam.

So I did a little research on how the tax credits work for EVs (and alt fuel cars like CNG). The tax credit will take your tax burden down to zero, but will not make it negative or carry over to next years, etc. This means you have to be making at least $70,000 a year with no other deductions to make use of a $7500 federal EV credit. Many states offer $1000-2000 EV credits as well (mine offers $2000), and the credits work the same on the state level. Again the needed income is roughly the same as with the federal due to how much less state tax is.

I make nowhere near $70,000 a year, so using these credits would not get me even half of the benefit, meaning a spanking new Volt for $41k would only reduce to approx $37k for me. This won't work.

Obama/Biden have been working to try to get this raised to $10,000 and make it into a rebate instead of tax credit (didn't look thoroughly to see if this has been passed) so people that can afford the post-credit price can buy an EV. People that make enough to use the credit in the first place likely do not need the credit to buy one. This makes sense, though I don't really agree with increasing it, it is astronomical already. The part about making the credit available to lower income people is what needs to be fixed. If you are going to incentivize these cars, at least make the money available to those to whom it is a bigger deal.

So I've ruled out EVs entirely. Even the Leaf is more than I want to pay for that sort of car when only benefiting from around 1/3 of the possible credits. I will be very interested in EV again if it is changed from credit to rebate. In addition technology for those cars will have improved by the time that goes into effect if passed.

On another front, as much as it would be cool to own a fast sporty car, I honestly don't drive like that, or go to a track (don't even have a track anywhere nearby to do that), so there's really no benefit to having one other than bragging rights on the internet (whoopty doo). Having looked at this for nearly a year, I started out wanting a smaller car based on the assumption that smaller and lighter would be more efficient, and I like efficiency, but smaller cars with smaller engines seem to get about the same fuel economy as larger cars that can be better laid out (aero/etc). Case in point, cars like a Chevy Sonic/Ford Fiesta ($20-21k well equipped) have fuel economy of approx 29/39, yet a much larger Honda Accord Sport ($24k) is rated for 26/36 and when you compare the standard equipment, the Accord is at least the same value considering the much better interior qualities and additional space. Even the Chevy Cruze Eco at 28/42 and $20k isn't all that great.

I don't dislike my current Pontiac Grand Prix (201"/V6 200hp/3500lbs), but it does feel like it lumbers around everywhere. I'm sure the suspension is quite soft. Something like the Accord (191"/I4 189hp/3300lbs) would give me a smaller (than current) size, but with similar power in a lighter car with likely far superior suspension setup. Something that could feel at least a little fun on roads within legal limits, not feeling like the car was rolling over on it's side in a high speed on/off ramp like my GP. It's a car that fits my actual needs and wants, however disappointing it might be to my online ego. As much as it would be cool to buy a Fiesta ST or a Miata or something awesome like that, it would be a mistake.

Still working through the hybrid part, though they are losing ground since I don't drive much. The mental battle of efficiency vs ride quality/space is still going on. It's hard for me to justify rolling around in a big car when it's usually just me and an empty back seat and trunk, but the money doesn't really argue in the hybrid's favor.

So that's where I stand currently.

Good to know what is actually correct about the policy change. I only found reference to Obama/Biden saying what I posted above. Weird they would be arguing to change it back.. flip floppers much?

I do drive with passengers occasionally, and will likely be doing much more of it soon (nephews are getting big enough to move to booster seats which are MUCH easier to move than car seats we just leave in my mom's SUV and always take her car that I hate driving). My car is always cleaned out, I never leave junk in it. The only thing in the trunk is an emergency kit and the back seats look like they are new. I already have AAA and I don't carry the spare/jack with me.

Hybrids lose because they are a compromise. Their expensive machinery causes interiors and suspension to be cheaper at the same price point. Compare a Prius and an Accord EX, both same price, vastly different interior and ride quality. Their redeeming feature of fuel economy doesn't really affect me. 4500 miles (a year for me) in an Accord is ~$500, and ~$300 in a Prius (and $1000 for my current car). So the ride and interior being better is worth $200 a year. I have to admit I like the dash in the Prius C. It's really clean and well organized, though the close to center positioned speedo and info screens are kind of odd. The rest of the cabin, not so great.

Another factor I hadn't thought of until just now is that if a car like a Prius C (watched a long test drive video) is constantly cutting in and out on the gas motor, my short trips will not get that motor up to temperature before I'm at my destination like an always on Accord would (just barely). Does that eliminate hybrids or am I putting too much thought into it?

--

Edit: One thing I had left to research was the EV mode in the Prius cars. It works, but is limited to 25 mph in the C and 35 mph in the regular, plus apparently the engine has to be warmed up to get these speeds (makes no sense). So.. nevermind about that EV ability, apparently most people only use it to move their car from the garage to the street or something very short like that.