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Author Topic: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)  (Read 158892 times)

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DaveBSC

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #270 on: September 30, 2012, 02:25:14 AM »

So... I'm kind of excited over the new F-Type Jag, as I may be looking for a roadster if I end up moving to the Northwest coast. I've also been considering the XKR convertible, but I prefer roadsters.

Then there's the "be really irresponsible and get an Aston" option,  like the V6 or upcoming V12 Vantage Roadsters. As nice as the Volantes are, again, I'm just not all the married to the idea of a four-seater (even if it only seats two realistically).

Of course, I may just give up the idea of a ragtop entirely now that the new Vanquish is coming out soon. Despite the gearbox issues on the older one, it's one of my favorites. Have to get it in a subdued, metallic grey-green too.

The F-type is sweet. It's the first Jag that's really appealed to me in quite awhile. The XF-R is nice, but the interior is a giant step below that of an S6 or E63. The switch gear looks and feels like crap, and all of the little details like the front seat backs look like they belong in a $30K car. Audi and Mercedes just don't make those mistakes. Reminds me of the "Ford Cortina antenna" joke that Clarkson made about the XK8 at it's launch back in '07. You'd NEVER catch Mercedes putting a 1980s metal retractable radio antenna on a new SL. The XJ just looks like a big fat whale, I cannot stand that design at all.

The XKR is ok, but it's getting way up there in years, and I just don't think it feels all that special. Very quick and a fantastic exhaust note, but otherwise a bit boring to be honest. I would much prefer either a Maserati GT Cabrio, or an AMG SL. The BMW 6 convertible is a lot less ugly than it used to be, but it's basically a 7 series with the roof cut off, not a fun car anymore. The Z4 on the other hand I like.

Aston I've been blah about for awhile. Their engines always seem to have about 100 less horsepower than they should, and I don't like the pointless "go fast" bits, same with the Jag XKR-S. Uggo. It also seems like Aston just keeps remaking the same car. The new Porsche 911 is more different than the old one compared to what Aston did with the Virage compared to the DB9.

Wild card, Audi R8 Spyder?





« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 02:33:56 AM by DaveBSC »
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #271 on: September 30, 2012, 07:03:15 AM »

You wouldn't get an Aston because it doesn't make enough horsepower?  I think you are really missing the point of some of these cars Dave.  Every non boosted American car makes 150hp less than it should too.  Only the Japanese and Italians do hp/liter for the most part.  Boost doesn't count, that's for cheaters, lazy engineers and accountants.   ;)

Have you had the chance to sit an Aston Martin?  There is no sports car brand that exudes such quality and refinement from the headliner to the switch gear IME.  Pagani certainly doesn't do refinement for me.  Saville Row > Gucci.  The exterior design of the Vantage is near aesthetic perfection from a designer's standpoint which is why they still look good after more than a decade w/ minimal updates.  After more than a decade the Vantage is still a timeless classic inside and out as it was from the day it was introduced.  Not to mention Aston has traditionally been the most understated as in lacking go fast bits till ProDrive bought them.  In another 40 years, people will still want to buy a Vantage.  Nobody will even remember the SLs or how much horsepower they made.

Haven't liked the look of an SL in like 10 years.  Too Teutonically sterile and devoid of soul. MB's are simply not comfortable cars for me, their seats piss me off and the SL interior is bland compared to even a CLS or S-class.  I'd even prefer a Miata's interior compared to the new SLK.  I couldn't believe how awful the new SLK interior was until I sat in it.  Be sure to have $100,000 handy too when that AMG motor grenades.  They replace 'em by the bushel at the dealership across from my friend's Lexus.  Nissan makes the GTR V6 with tech wearing bunny suits in a clean room.  AMG makes their V12s w/ dudes wearing black MB polos and brown Khakis.  Heck, even the SLS is just a reskinned, still born, partial birth aborted, next gen Viper.  Not to mention 15% of the cost of any German car you buy is a straight up tithe to the German Labour unions. 


Always had a soft spot for Maserati, even w/ the sequential.   ;)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 07:17:47 AM by Analixus »
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DaveBSC

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #272 on: September 30, 2012, 11:30:56 AM »

Have you had the chance to sit an Aston Martin?  There is no sports car brand that exudes such quality and refinement from the headliner to the switch gear IME.  Pagani certainly doesn't do refinement for me.  Saville Row > Gucci.  The exterior design of the Vantage is near aesthetic perfection from a designer's standpoint which is why they still look good after more than a decade w/ minimal updates.  After more than a decade the Vantage is still a timeless classic inside and out as it was from the day it was introduced.  Not to mention Aston has traditionally been the most understated as in lacking go fast bits till ProDrive bought them.  In another 40 years, people will still want to buy a Vantage.  Nobody will even remember the SLs or how much horsepower they made.

Oh yeah? http://reviews.cnet.com/convertible/2012-aston-martin-v8/4505-10870_7-35291430.html

When I think Aston, I think lots of zazz, lots of flash and style, very little attention paid to the basics, like you know, electronics that are usable or buttons that are operable. Astons are like the Fisker, looks gorgeous, then you go to try and actually use it day to day and you just go WTF, who designed this? Until last year Aston had what was the worst NAV interface in the auto industry, borrowed from Volvo along with the window switches and mirror controls. Now even Volvo dumped that for a 21st century system, and Aston switched to the cheesy Garmin system that you can get at Best Buy as a $50 special, expect they charge almost $3K for it. Smart shopper!

I hope you're not trying to seriously imply that Mercedes are unreliable, and the smart money is on an Aston Martin. That's like saying, don't buy a Land Cruiser, if you want it to start the first time every morning, make it a Range Rover.

I'll be the first to admit that I flat out did not like anything Mercedes produced from about 1997 to 2006 or so. The quality fell off a cliff, the interiors were junk, and they WERE unreliable. The Mercedes of today is a very different company. COMAND isn't the greatest system around (and it will be replaced with a new system in the upcoming models), but its on a different planet from anything you'll find in an Aston Martin.

I have been inside a few of them by the way, they are very nice but I don't think they are all that different from a comparable Maserati. Still plenty of plastic parts all over the place that you'd never find in a Zonda.

Ultimately I just have zero interest in cars that are toys that sit in the garage for a nice sunny day. If I were to buy in this class it would be an every day driver, and that would be either an SL AMG for a convertible cruiser, or an R8 V-10 Spyder for a sports car. I still think the R8 looks as fresh as the day it was launched, and now that it has the S-tronic DSG, it's a real every day usable car as well. The Vantage is very pretty, but all I see when I look at it is a DB9 set on 80%.

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Anaxilus.

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #273 on: September 30, 2012, 05:41:08 PM »

Not sure what that link was about but I wasn't comparing MB to Aston, they don't even belong in the same sentence as far as I'm concerned.  Like comparing Apples and Bananas.  I don't even know how you can use Zazz and flash talking about Aston but not Pagani or most other cars.  What exactly about that Aston you linked is zazzy and flashy?  Aston is historically about British elegance, refinement and understatement at it's best.  It's what gets parked next to the Rang Rover.  Or are Range Rovers about flash and Zazz too?  Maybe you see too many rappers w/ dubs on theirs.  I see nothing about quality and refinement wrt craftsmanship in that link.  Just the usual electronic issues that plague British and even German cars.  Talking about Lucas electronics is like taking a time capsule back to the 80's.  That's why I bought my V-12 XJS w/ Magnetti Marelli electronics, not Lucas.

If you think MB has zero issues now that they've supposedly stopped trying to price gouge customers using the cheapest parts in the bin I'd think again.  They are better overalll, but not w/o issues.  I dunno, there's two neighbors that drive a DB9 and Volante to work everyday.  Got another w/ a 911 that stays garaged most of the time.  Go figure.  Actually I find the Vantage to be the best looking Aston regardless of price.  It's design just nails cleanliness and balance.

Aston even has counter rotating gauges to promote symmetry and harmony within the driver experience.  I don't know anyone else that does that.  Even the ring around the shifter is machined from a single piece of billet 6061 aircraft grade aluminum and supposedly costs $2000 GBP to make by itself.  The starter button is sapphire crystal.  You can give Aston any paint chip from your favorite color and they'll paint your car in it.  Find one car made in Germany w/ the level of craftsmanship you see below.

You don't benchmark an Aston.  You look, touch, feel and listen.  Now I see why you don't get the LFA, you don't get Aston.  Let me guess, Range Rover sucks because it can't haul or tow as much as a Dodge Ram?  ;) 

I like the R8 too, just saw a R10 again the other day.  I'd rather keep saving up for the Aventador myself despite the hideously flashy and zazzy interior.  Both of those use sequentials btw.   ;D   Don't like the R8 as a  convertible, rather fugly half-hearted adaptation to me.  The 458 is an awesome convertible/retractable Hardtop. Same for the MP4-12C.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 06:29:50 PM by Analixus »
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #274 on: September 30, 2012, 05:47:55 PM »








« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 06:11:23 PM by Analixus »
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Marvey

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #275 on: September 30, 2012, 06:03:41 PM »

Your XJS sucks. I beat my friend's XJS in a street race in Detroit in the late nineties with SC'd Camaro.
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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #276 on: September 30, 2012, 06:15:14 PM »

Your XJS sucks. I beat my friend's XJS in a street race in Detroit in the late nineties with SC'd Camaro.

Did it have half as many cylinders as mine?   *:p  And yes I added you to my will as I know how bad you want it.   :)p17  Besides, the XJS has the added benefit of not looking like a Camaro. 

I was going to try to do a 200mph Bonnevile run in it.  The engine and gearing are theoretically capable w/ only drag, stability and traction limitations.  But 200 mph seems to be 'common' these days w/ the new cars so it doesn't seem to be as motivating anymore.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 06:25:39 PM by Analixus »
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DaveBSC

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #277 on: September 30, 2012, 06:29:50 PM »

You don't benchmark an Aston.  You look, touch, feel and listen.  Now I see why you don't get the LFA, you don't get Aston.  Let me guess, Range Rover sucks because it can't haul or tow as much as a Dodge Ram?  ;) [/size]

I like the R8 too, just saw an R10 again the other day.  I'd rather keep saving up for the Aventador.  Both of which use sequentials btw.   ;D   Don't like the R8 convertible, rather fugly half-hearted adaptation to me.  The 458 is an awesome convertible.

I definitely prefer Aston to Bentley. I absolutely can't stand the Continental GT or the Mulsanne. To me they look like Volkswagen Passats that somebody threw a bunch of money at. The Brooklands was the last real Bentley. That said, the silly glass key and the "Power, Beauty, Soul" message every time you turn the car on, the unreadable gauges, the unusable electronics, that's where they start to lose me. That's the zazz, too much form and not enough function. That and I just feel like I keep seeing the same car over and over since the DB9 was launched. It's a nice design, but what else ya got?

The Range Rover is the most attractive of that type of SUV, but SUVs in general do absolutely nothing for me. If I need a big box to move stuff I'll rent a Penske.

The R8 was using a sequential manual, back when it was launched the available DSG couldn't handle the power. Audi's new DSG though can handle even the RS4 and RS5, so they slotted it in to the R8 with this year's refresh, meaning it now has a much better gearbox than cousin Gallardo. What's most likely to end up in my driveway though is an S6. Power, luxury, refinement, cutting edge tech, practicality, it's got it all. Oh, and it'll outrun a V8 Vantage  :)p6

I do like the CLS as well, but there's no 4Matic in the AMG and you kind of need that around here.

By the way, I drove a '96 XJS convertible, from the final year. Great leather, the leather that Jag uses now is trash compared to that, BUT otherwise an absolutely terrible car. The driving position was horrible, wind buffeting at speed was like an open cockpit airplane, and the handling, ye gods. Snap oversteer at like 30mph lol. What a boat.
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #278 on: September 30, 2012, 06:45:30 PM »

Lol, totally agree about the snap oversteer.  Almost snapped the front end into a wall taking a right turn from a stop the first time.  That was exciting.  Just needs wider, better rubber and a proper sway bar set up.  Walkinshaw won many races slaughtering BMW M6's w/ the XJS so it's capable as a boat sized GT can be.  I have a '95 coupe so no wind buffeting.  The pre-ford Jags are quite a lot of work wrt anything that isn't hermedically sealed.  The mechanicals were sorted the last few years but it's the itty bitty stuff like dash and trim pieces and all that.  Boy does it emboddy everything good and bad about British engineering.  Part of the experience.


I see what you mean as zazz.  The dash message is a bit much, it should have a disable option or rolling message.  Like the Garmin K.I.T.T navigation.   :D   I won't lie though, I do like the new Jag's rotating/auto-closing air vents and ascending/decending shift knob. 

Aston is different kind of car for sure.  It's supposed to play to more of the subconscious experience than the conscious.  That's why we have choices.  For me, everytime I get in one I just want to engage all my senses even when the car is standing still.

For more practical, spirited driving I believe in sub ton MR's that let every part of the road through.  Where a Lotus is P90x, the Aston is a sauna and massage.
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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #279 on: September 30, 2012, 06:56:53 PM »

I like the R8 Spyder. In fact I like it more than the hardtop R8, personally. It seems to have the benefit of being just livable enough for everyday use but also a great performer. I dunno though... it just lacks that certain x-factor for me. Hard to explain.

It kind of reminds me visually of the new Lamborghini Gallardo LP550-2 Spyder, but obviously not as ridiculous. I've never really been a Lamborghini fan however, though I find their cubist designs fascinating if ultimately unappealing. It's obviously an attempt to be as overtly masculine as possible, what with the sharp angularity.

Ferrari on the other hand has always set me off on an emotional level with plenty of that x-factor. I'd get a Ferrari 458 Spyder or the F12 Berlinetta (sex on wheels) if I were in a position to drive something that impractical around. Ferraris have an air of "lottery win" about them, but oh well, who cares.

I'm still more of a Jag / Aston person at the end of the day.
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