CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

  • December 31, 2015, 02:04:54 PM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

Who shouldn't be trusted?

Steve Guttenberg @ CNET
- 94 (11.6%)
Mike Mercer
- 91 (11.2%)
Mike Fremer @ Stereophile
- 32 (3.9%)
Headphonia.com
- 66 (8.1%)
What Hi-Fi?
- 58 (7.2%)
24bit / Michael Piskor @ Headfonics.com
- 38 (4.7%)
John Grandberg / Project86 @ Head-Fi.com
- 28 (3.5%)
hifiguy528 @ Head-Fi.com
- 64 (7.9%)
Macedonian Hero @ Head -Fi.com
- 48 (5.9%)
Srajan Ebaen @ SixMoons.com
- 72 (8.9%)
Skylab @ Head-Fi.com
- 31 (3.8%)
Chris Connaker @ ComputerAudiophile.com
- 30 (3.7%)
Jude Mansilla @Head-Fi.com
- 116 (14.3%)
Michael Lavorgna (late add - redo vote if you want to add)
- 24 (3%)
TAS / Robert Harley (late add - redo vote if you want to add)
- 19 (2.3%)

Total Members Voted: 162

Voting closes: March 28, 2018, 05:02:01 PM


Pages: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 18 ... 21

Author Topic: Reviewing the audiophile reviewers  (Read 15411 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Deep Funk

  • Sure is fond of ellipses...
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +111/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2344
  • Born in 1988, eclectic 90-ties!
    • Radjahs2cents
Re: Reviewing the audiophile reviewers
« Reply #120 on: July 06, 2015, 10:10:13 PM »

The second shooter on the grassy knoll? I don't trust him, his account is nothing but a front for the military industrial complex  p:/

It is called "Patriot Park" in Russia. Disney has nothing on this one...

Logged
Few things keep me sane: my loved ones, my music and my hobbies. Few is almost an understatement here...

ultrabike

  • Burritous Supremus (and Mexican Ewok)
  • Master
  • Pirate
  • *****
  • Brownie Points: +4226/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2384
  • I consider myself "normal"
Re: Reviewing the audiophile reviewers
« Reply #121 on: July 06, 2015, 10:12:51 PM »

The Mahler thing is largely a regurgitation of the info/impressions I gave him of high end HPs through tons of PMs over the course of maybe half a year. 

I don't trust stereophile, 6moons, etc whatsoever and will only go to one of those sites if I'm trying to find out something specific about the gear (year it came out, etc) or to see measurements.  That pretty much leaves forum reviews...

I like forums reviews much more than professional reviews, but I either don't trust or don't agree with a large portion of users.  I don't trust people that give their input on everything, because they usually fall into 1 of 2 categories:
1. People that write long reviews of lots of gear.  Usually seen on HF.  There are a couple of genuine reviewers, but most seem more interested in building up a name for themselves or getting free shit for positive feedback.
2. People that comment on every piece of gear.  Seen on every forum.  These are usually people that go to lots of meets or have a local Hifi store and get to listen to things for 30 seconds in noisy conditions, oftentimes with other variables in the chain they're not extremely familiar with.  Very misleading and it shows in the inaccuracy of their impressions.

Removing more people from the list, I also don't trust people that listen with their eyes.  There are so many people that, I think, already know what buzzwords they're gonna use before they even listen to a piece of gear.  That could be subconscious, I'm not sure.  Are there tubes?  Talk about warmth.  Solid state?  Say it's harsh.  Does it measure very well?  Say something about it being 'sterile'.  Is there wood involved? Mention it sounding 'organic'.  This goes on and on.  I've even noticed what seems to be a pretty high correlation in terms used depending on the color of the gear (copper colors > silver, manufacturers).

What remains are the people whose impressions I can trust, however even lots of these people are missing something I find important: experience.  The two components that make up experience are quality time spent with very high quality gear and quality time spent with a breadth of different gear.  Going to meets is a great way to get experience, but it doesn't compare with actually having that piece of gear in your home and in your system, thus I wouldn't classify it as quality time. 
The importance of having quality time with very high quality gear is that it raises the bar for what you know is possible with a headphone system.  A person who has only owned Audeze and Grados won't know what an expansive soundstage is, but they probably think they're hearing it...until they upgrade to a T1 and then they're hearing what they consider an expansive soundstage...until they upgrade to a HD800 and then they're hearing what actually is an expansive soundstage for HPs.  Despite this, they were arguing with the HD800 owners about their Audeze and Grados having a nice soundstage (because they're coming from iBuds) at the beginning until they actually know better.  Basically, think MacedonianHero.  Now apply this to every aspect of sound reproduction and couple it with the constantly revolving door of HF noobs and you probably start to see why this is a problem.
The importance of having quality time spent with lots of different gear is that it gives you the ability to rank and sort the different aspects of sound signature for all the gear you've had said high quality time with. 

What's this all mean?  I gen erally find myself agreeing most with the people that own/have owned/have borrowed lots of different high quality gear in their own home and in their own system.  purk, muppetface, anetode, radio_head, prepro, marv, spritzer, mahler, etc etc etc.  Just giving examples, not trying to name drop. 

Everybody has biases that you learn to read and acclimate to, and once you do I find you can get some very reliable info.



Extra protip: Generally, if the review rambles on and on, they're probably making a lot of shit up in their mind.

Milos, I think I see where you are comming from. If one convinces oneself that an 009 or an 007 + KG super amps are The Benchmark, then a reviewer that has burned his ears to those references, would proly have more credibility in the eyes of someone that agrees with such a benchmark (note Stax products & KG "not-products" don't seem to sound the same though... at least the Stax ones don't - have no ample experiense with KG wires with gain). This is to some extent evident.

Problem is, are those limited options indeed The Benchmark for a quality setup?

I personally don't think so.

Also, do I agree with u in considering Preproman a credible reviewer?

Nope.

Am I right in my own beliefs?

Dunno. Who cares. I'm just a Mexican Ewok.
Logged

anetode

  • an objectivist trapped in a subjectivist's body
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +178/-7
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1067
Re: Reviewing the audiophile reviewers
« Reply #122 on: July 06, 2015, 10:21:18 PM »

It is called "Patriot Park" in Russia. Disney has nothing on this one...

Back in Odessa there was a wooded area filled with the detritus of WWII, including several tanks. I climbed on one as a kid, only to find that the local homeless comrades had converted it into a giant metal toilet (a septic tank, if you will).
Logged
Love isn't always on time.

n3rdling

  • Statastic
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +86/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 480
Re: Reviewing the audiophile reviewers
« Reply #123 on: July 06, 2015, 10:24:15 PM »

The Mahler thing isn't important and I'm not trying to claim credit for anything.  I get a little upset whenever I see that name for a specific reason, so it was more of a jab than anything.  People who have been around a while probably kinda know what I'm talking about.  He put a ton of work into that thread and deserves every bit of lmader's adulation.

To be more clear: Do you ever get PMs from random people who ask for impressions/info?  For whatever reason I tend to get (or used to, when I posted more) those PMs with some frequency, usually about electrostats.  I'm sure Marv has received more DAC-related PMs than anybody would ever care to answer.  I don't mind though.  I actually much prefer giving impressions of gear through PM or email; I don't have to worry about hurting people's feelings or entering a fanboy warzone.  I can be much more open and honest.  If I could post like that in public I'd probably still post a lot.

I went back and checked one of the PM exchange threads I had with him and over the course of ~2 months there were over 11,000 words typed between the two of us, generally him asking me my thoughts on HPs or asking for info about specific HPs/amps.  That's 1 PM thread, and not including all the public posts directed toward him I made during that time.  This was before he ever owned an electrostat or had many of the high end dynamics in the review.  Reading that thread for the first time I did notice a high correlation between our rankings, as well as info and impressions I made of the high end headphones reviewed.  If I genuinely thought he was just some copy cat imposter, I wouldn't have mentioned him as having trustworthy ears.

That could be a total coincidence, and even if it's not I really don't care.  Again, that comment was more a jab in passing and not meant to redirect the thread. 


On that note, and actually related to the thread: I do think the best way to get honest impressions is via PM/email/IRC/in person, by far.  There's way less tip-toeing involved and people cut straight to the chase.  You guys should come on the changstar IRC some time - it's a refreshing approach to the community.
Logged

1melomaniac

  • Powder Monkey
  • *
  • Brownie Points: +5/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 45
Re: Reviewing the audiophile reviewers
« Reply #124 on: July 06, 2015, 11:23:16 PM »

This dude. I read a review from him some time ago that was informative but pretty funny. I had forgotten about him, but thanks for bringing him back to our attention.

erm, really? his homepage at http://noaudiophile.com/index.php announces:

"Headphones suck, and why: A dissertation on the folly of ear cans"

LOL  popcorn
Logged

maverickronin

  • Objectively Sound
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +58/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 670
  • Your friendly neighborhood audio skeptic
Re: Reviewing the audiophile reviewers
« Reply #125 on: July 06, 2015, 11:33:11 PM »

erm, really? his homepage at http://noaudiophile.com/index.php announces:

"Headphones suck, and why: A dissertation on the folly of ear cans"

LOL  popcorn

Been waiting for that one considering the rest of his article are funny, useful, and informative.  I wonder WTF he's going to say?
Logged
Heaven's closed - Hell's sold out - So I walk on Earth.

madaboutaudio

  • Jude's Closet Lover
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +32/-28
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 213
Re: Reviewing the audiophile reviewers
« Reply #126 on: July 07, 2015, 12:43:49 AM »

I think we should be REALLY careful of reviewers who gloss over serious glaring issues with the equipment or try their best to deflect the issue away.

This is how Michael Piskor(24bit), Headfonics flips issues around.
Quote (selected)
Treble

It seems a great deal of enthusiasts seriously dislike the top end of this headphone…and I can absolutely understand why: it is muffled, reserved and extremely slow.  However, it offers a bite and brightness to it that reminds me a lot of the Stax 007 in the manner that electrostatic served up its top end.  It is musical and I enjoy the brightness because it lacks hiss and snap, which is a rare combination with treble experiences in general in the headphone world.  Yes, it feels oddly setup, perhaps even lacking in engaging qualities, but you can easily get past that when you realize the treble offered is of a solid substance and weighted tonality type.  Odd, but satisfying.

http://headfonics.com/2015/06/the-mdr-z7-by-sony/2/
Logged

ohhgourami

  • Bad at NDAs
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +129/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 393
Re: Reviewing the audiophile reviewers
« Reply #127 on: July 07, 2015, 01:35:53 AM »

I think we should be REALLY careful of reviewers who gloss over serious glaring issues with the equipment or try their best to deflect the issue away.

This is how Michael Piskor(24bit), Headfonics flips issues around.

What the hell does he even mean in that quote?

"I hate treble and these cans barely have any so I like them. I'm afraid to say they don't have any because that would lose sales"
Logged

OJneg

  • Audio Ayatollah / Wow and Fluster
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +120/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1245
Re: Reviewing the audiophile reviewers
« Reply #128 on: July 07, 2015, 02:54:28 AM »

Been waiting for that one considering the rest of his article are funny, useful, and informative.  I wonder WTF he's going to say?

I know the guy more personally. He just likes the smoother sound that a good tweeter will give you. FR/tone focused in terms of his listening priorities. And given most headphones do have treble irregularities it makes sense. FWIW he asked me a while back to recommend a TOTL headphone and I told him to try the LCD2. Go ahead and laugh. I knew he wouldn't have lasted more than 10s with the HD800 and I figured he would at least appreciate the solid bass that the Audezes provide (this was pre-Fazer) coming from speakers. He returned it for nebulous reasons that he didn't describe well to me.
 
I think we should be REALLY careful of reviewers who gloss over serious glaring issues with the equipment or try their best to deflect the issue away.

This is how Michael Piskor(24bit), Headfonics flips issues around.

Michael is an interesting guy. We've butt heads on reddit before (still do). I think his listening priorities and references are all off. The fact that he considers something like the JH16 a reference sound is a big red flag to my sensibilities. His dislike for a lot of headphones stems from his need for a "musical tone". Something like the HD800 or even an SR009 would be way too accurate ahem "cold and analytical"  ;) to him. I still haven't found a headphone that to him would be too "musical".  But all in all I don't think he has bad ears. For example, he noticed in his Ether review how it has frighteningly similar FR to the HD800 (something that Anax and I had a chuckle over at CanJam). And I've never seen him call a headphone something it wasn't (although I disagree with a lot of his wording). He's on target with his sonic impressions, the only issue is that his target is way off to the "musical" side.
Logged

DaveBSC

  • Best Korean Sympathizer
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +222/-50
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2092
Re: Reviewing the audiophile reviewers
« Reply #129 on: July 07, 2015, 05:44:10 AM »

Been waiting for that one considering the rest of his article are funny, useful, and informative.  I wonder WTF he's going to say?

Yeah I'm curious as well. I just wonder if he's ever had exposure to well amped, truly HQ cans. If I had only ever heard high priced Grados, an HD800 on the wrong setup, the T1, and the ED10, I would probably say that high-end cans sound like shit. Many of them obviously do.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 18 ... 21