Topic: The Amazing Super Duper Underrated HD650. A Headphone That Kicks Serious Ass. (Read 51298 times)

OJneg · « **Reply #160 on:** May 22, 2015, 01:13:52 AM »

Haha, that's fine. Chalk it up to preferences then.

maverickronin · « **Reply #161 on:** May 22, 2015, 01:32:38 AM »

Quote from: ultrabike on May 22, 2015, 12:31:26 AM

I cannot hear deeper into the mix with a Lambda (or Lambda like stuffs). I had an SR307(Lambda Like) for audition for a while, again, not as revealing to me. Here are my impressions from then:

I just call everything with that same frame a Lambda out of habit. Don't know if technically right or not. My favorites are my modded normal bias, but i have a stock 207 and I'd say they same thing about it as well. I'm definitely a measurements guy but between the possibly bad amp and trouble getting a seal on you rig your measurement's look pretty strange compared to Tyll's numbers on the 207 and 507

Makes me wonder exactly what we're each listening for because...

Quote from: OJneg on May 22, 2015, 12:35:12 AM

Resolution is, as I have come to define it independently from what I hear as well as what I glean from others, the ability to portray information on the recording. The ability to render the picture/frame in its entirety if we want to use the video analogy. It's not a big leap to extend that definition to include both microdetail (plankton, inner-whatever, etc) and spatial information (ambient cues, precise imaging, etc.)

to my ears it the various Lambda variations I've heard do that better than the HD650s.

Quote from: OJneg on May 22, 2015, 12:35:12 AM

If we can all agree on this definition (feel free to add your interpretations guys), then the Lambdas are certainly a few notches below the HD6xx in terms of providing that resolution. Yes they sound nice and clean and clear, but they just aren't as resolving. It fucking baffles me how people can say a headphone like that is resolving...clearly we're listening to different things or have very definitions/interpretations. Hope that all makes sense

It makes sense but we still don't agree. At least I think it does. I'd say that "speed" and "macro-clarity" are necessary, but not sufficient conditions for "resolution".

Stock, the Lambdas do have a platicky timbre, the the HD650s definitely win there. I can understand some people not being able to get over that in the same way I have issues with the stock HD800. My ears get use to the plastic sound pretty fast though and I think it's other positives outweigh that negative. My normal bias Lambdas have that completely modded away though.

I didn't really intend to start a flame war though, so just go ahead and ignore me if you want.

maverickronin · « **Reply #162 on:** May 22, 2015, 01:44:34 AM »

Quote from: n3rdling on May 22, 2015, 01:12:44 AM

You and me both (and every comparison of the headphones I've ever read up to about a month or two ago).

OJ, I pretty much agree with your definitions and have no idea what you're hearing. :p

Thanks for the backup.

ultrabike · « **Reply #163 on:** May 22, 2015, 04:22:49 AM »

Quote from: maverickronin on May 22, 2015, 01:32:38 AM

I'm definitely a measurements guy but between the possibly bad amp and trouble getting a seal on you rig your measurement's look pretty strange compared to Tyll's numbers on the 207 and 507

Makes me wonder exactly what we're each listening for because...

to my ears it the various Lambda variations I've heard do that better than the HD650s.

Bad amp? Trouble getting seal? Look pretty strange? Well, in my setup they do seem to have a large null around 4kHz for the Lambdas. But overall I don't think the measurements are too far off (specially due to seal). Could be the SRS323 I had at hand. You really feel it was that? I do not use compensation and our rigs are obviously different though. Here are the plots (note I start at 20 Hz instead of 10 Hz):

I didn't have that null in with the SR009s (same measurement approach and equipment). Not the same width at least. Possible some there is a baffle reflection or perhaps an interaction with the pads. Or perhaps the cans are indeed misbehaving at that particular frequency range. Amp for the 009s was N3rdlings very own 727 (and T1 which made not a difference in the measurements actually).

Now, using the same plot parameters, here are the HD600s and HD650s on top of them:

Consider that the Lambda measurements actually required a rubber band to get any decent seal (something the Omegas didn't seem to need). With hair and given the virtually zero pressure exerted by the headband, I highly doubt you are getting anywhere near the required seal to get the bass response as measured by Tyll or in my measurements. Add to that the fairly unremarkable response throughout the mids and even the treble (in Tyll's or my pretty plots) and it baffles me how these are considered revealing at all.

It's a special kind of sound IMO. Fairly artificial however. If you want to stick to electrostats for whatever reason, the Omegas are definitively a step up both to my ears and measurements wise.

Ali-Pacha · « **Reply #164 on:** May 22, 2015, 06:14:28 AM »

I don't know the HD650 very well, but there is indeed something about the detail retrieval of the HD600 Lambdas don't have : the ability to reveal some details that makes want you to turn your head because you're feeling it comes from the room you're in.
Lambdas do present this kind of details, but you won't be surprised by the way they "pop", kind of flatness in their portrayal compared to the HD600. Maybe they are eaten by the high-mids bump of the Lambdas and their concentrated (yet very airy) soundstage.

I do agree with the plasticky sound of most of stats, but maybe it depends on your reference : used to stats, you may find dynamic cans gritty / "carton-y", and used to dynamics, you sure find stats plasticky / artificial sounding / lacking body.

2 cents / YMMV / whatsoever.

Ali

ultrabike · « **Reply #165 on:** May 22, 2015, 06:55:24 AM »

Quote from: Ali-Pacha on May 22, 2015, 06:14:28 AM

I do agree with the plasticky sound of most of stats, but maybe it depends on your reference : used to stats, you may find dynamic cans gritty / "carton-y", and used to dynamics, you sure find stats plasticky / artificial sounding / lacking body.

Perhaps indeed.

Dynamics come in a wide variety of flavors though: the explosives, the ear drillers, the boring sounding, the mellow sounding, the u-shaped exciting, the neutral sounding... and indeed the gritty and cartony sounding. But not all have the exact same characteristics IMO. I don't feel the HD600s are gritty or carton-y. But I can think of other dynamic cans that are.

The stats (of which I regard the 007 highest) are less numerous, and IMO do share common characteristics. More so than dynamics.

EDIT: Please take into consideration that "objectively" all of these statements are fairly subjective.

kothganesh · « **Reply #166 on:** May 22, 2015, 06:59:34 AM »

Ultra,

that's interesting you regard the 007 as the highest. I presume you have listened to the 009 as well? Any quick comparos between the two? Now that you mention it, the 007 I have is close to the HD 650 but methinks the latter is 'thicker", if you know what I mean.

Marvey · « **Reply #167 on:** May 22, 2015, 07:00:39 AM »

The entire chain matters. This includes amps and sources.
Lets's not call it resolution, let's call it retrieval of low level information. Hopefully we won't need to argue about semantics. Actually, let's just call it plankton.
In terms of retrieval of low level information, HD650 from a resolving amp (Torpedo, Valhalla2, Black Widow, etc.) > Lambda from any stat amp including T2DIY, assuming decent DAC / source.
In other words, I can fucking hear tiny shit (decays, ambient cues, plankton) on HD650s which Lambda's don't even bother reproducing. As in nada, dropped, gone, lost in space. It's not even funny.

ultrabike · « **Reply #168 on:** May 22, 2015, 07:14:44 AM »

Quote from: kothganesh on May 22, 2015, 06:59:34 AM

Ultra,

that's interesting you regard the 007 as the highest. I presume you have listened to the 009 as well? Any quick comparos between the two? Now that you mention it, the 007 I have is close to the HD 650 but methinks the latter is 'thicker", if you know what I mean.

Yup. Heard the 009 actually more often actually, but have not have the chance to do quick comparos between 007ses and 009ses. The HD6x0 in general would be thicker than either 007 or 009... or less lean or ethereal. Depends on perspective.

That said, the question at hand is resolution/plankton/low-level-info. Now on that subject I did have a chance to listen to the Lambdas right next to the HD600s. And indeed, the HD600 had the upper hand.

(Disclaimer: please note that the above statements are objectively all subjective)

kothganesh · « **Reply #169 on:** May 22, 2015, 11:02:00 AM »

Never heard any Lambda. Now that I have the Yggy up and running (about 28-29 hours), will be interesting to compare the 650 (BH Crack) versus the 007 (KGSShv)..

Author Topic: The Amazing Super Duper Underrated HD650. A Headphone That Kicks Serious Ass. (Read 51298 times)

OJneg

Re: The Amazing Super Duper Underrated HD650. A Headphone That Kicks Serious Ass.

maverickronin

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maverickronin

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ultrabike

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Ali-Pacha

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ultrabike

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kothganesh

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Marvey

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ultrabike

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kothganesh

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Author Topic: The Amazing Super Duper Underrated HD650. A Headphone That Kicks Serious Ass. (Read 51298 times)