CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

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Author Topic: Bill-p's Modded Headphones - Some Thoughts and Fast Measurements  (Read 1377 times)

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Hands

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Bill-p was kind enough to send some headphones my way. This first round included his modded LCD-2, modded MDR-Z7, and modded ATH-ES10.

Keep in mind how I hear things and my personal tastes with recent headphone impressions and measurements when looking at everything below. If you don't normally hear things the way I do, take this all with a grain of salt. We all have physical differences that play a role in hearing, various tastes, different gear, different music collections, and so on. So don't get hung up on anything you disagree with. For a quick reference and reminder on what I think of some popular headphones:

HD600 - Very nice, mostly neutral, but a bit hot in the 2-4KHz range for me depending on material and how long and loud I'm listening. I find that boost in the 100Hz area to be somewhat favorable, but could use more low-bass slam and power.
HD650 - A bit bassier than the HD600 (but with less THD on my pair, so can be cleaner sounding) and with less of the 2-4KHz bump, but largely similar, at least with the pair I got. Upper treble seems a bit sharper and grainier than HD600, somehow, despite being pushed down more in comparison. Don't ask me to explain why, cause I dunno.
HE-560 - Nooope. No way. I've heard two recent pairs now, and the emphasis in that 3-5KHz range just kills me. Like sticking nails in my ear. Certain mods change it from nail to icicles being stuck in my ear (so, a bit better). Treble beyond that is also too elevated for me. I found it so uncomfortable to listen to that I really had a hard time picking up the otherwise good qualities of the headphone. Can't speak for possible product variation.
PM-2 (stock, not my modded one) - Good bass and mids, though a bit soft sounding. On the slower and warmer side of things. Upper-mids and treble as a whole are depressed and not particularly well integrated with stock pads. Some sort of weird treble spike that makes them sound rough and weird despite even the spike being pushed down.
Slants - Smooth and relatively fatigue free. Surprisingly good soundstage. A bit thicker sounding than I'd like (in the upper-bass and low-mids), but not too bad once you get used to it. Pulls details out better than you'd expect despite this thickness. A good T50RP mod but tone isn't 100% to my tastes. I enjoy it for the smooth, easy going nature.
PM-3 - Fun bass, but a bit too much for critical listening. At least it's not too thick or muddy and is better than the soft nature of the PM-1 and 2. Treble has a bit of brightness to it in some spots but is relatively smooth and generally pleasing to listen to. Faster and probably more resolving than PM1 and 2.

Now, with that said...First up are some thoughts and a really quick measurement take of Bill-p's modded LCD-2. Just the left channel, just one quick take. Doing my normal routine on these will be difficult anyway since the pads are angled and glued into place. I listened to these briefly, took some notes, and then snagged a peek at measurements (I never take measurements without listening first).


Modded LCD-2 Impressions
- Good bass and mids. Good presence and body, but not too thick. Nice sense of power and impact. However, a bit on the slow side of things indeed. Seems to get in the way of itself with some bass details. But really not all that bad, IMO. Very close.
- Somewhere there seems to be a suck out in the mids or some sort of poor integration from bass to treble. Something about the integration and cohesiveness across the spectrum is just off.
- Trebl e is rather bright and splashy sounding. Metallic. Makes the headphone sound really thin despite having thickness at the same time. Fairly clean, just oddly elevated. Kind of nasally. Weird timbre and tone. Hard to listen to for very long.
- Sounds like a U-shaped sound signature with perhaps more treble than bass.
- Despite bass slowness and an in-your-face, close sound (more on that in a sec), decently sharp and resolving sounding.
- Male vocals sound really thin and pushed back too far in the stage. Which is weird since the bass and mids are good. I think it's the treble weirdness that is doing this.
- Not very airy. Soundstage is more on the claustrophobic side of things. Not much width, or depth (if anything, more height than either of these). Layering suffers as such. Still decently resolving and doesn't get in the way of itself too much outside of bass, but just sounds like everything is way too close, in your face, and just too enveloping. Very "big" sounding but way too close and up-front about it.
- These actually kind of remind me of the HE-560, so it's not too surprising to say I'm not a fan of this LCD-2 mod. This LCD-2 mod does sound a bit smoother and easier to listen to. Less harsh than the HE-560, but brighter and more splashy, if that makes sense. More metallic sounding.
- I have never heard a stock or any other LCD-2 besides this. Or, rather, anything from Audeze.

I think measurements are quite enlightening in terms of how I hear these. Excellent response up to about 2KHz with a bit of a warmer, bassier tilt. This I really dig. Upper mids and treble is not only too emphasized after that but jumps up suddenly and sounds poorly integrated as such. IGNORE the THD below 100Hz. My heater is running and puts in those distortion artifacts, plus my setup is most limited with low-end THD results. THD as a whole starts to max out what my system can measure.

CSD is actually quite clean for this sort of response. Good job on that.

Dropped in a quick measurement take of a mostly-stock HE-560 as well for comparison (it was missing the ear pad liner vs stock is all). Sorry that the scales aren't perfectly matched up.
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Bill-p

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Re: Bill-p's Modded Headphones - Some Thoughts and Fast Measurements
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2015, 11:51:13 PM »

Great. Thanks, hans!

Based on your impressions thus far, I'd say the stock LCD-2 may be right up your alley. Will see if I can get another pair to send to you when I get back in September. :)

Can't wait to hear your thoughts on the other 2. Haha. Z7 may just be right if that's the case.
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OJneg

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Re: Bill-p's Modded Headphones - Some Thoughts and Fast Measurements
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2015, 11:59:25 PM »

Ok that explains it. Your version was pretty damn bright dude.
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Bill-p

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Re: Bill-p's Modded Headphones - Some Thoughts and Fast Measurements
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2015, 12:12:18 AM »

Haha. Yeah. Will need to tone it down a good amount.

I kept hearing it as extremely thin and bright, but the FR graph on my rig says that's neutral. Will need to adjust it down now.
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kapanak

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Re: Bill-p's Modded Headphones - Some Thoughts and Fast Measurements
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2015, 12:18:53 AM »

Which is why people like commercial modders tune with ear first then go to measurements.
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Hands

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Re: Bill-p's Modded Headphones - Some Thoughts and Fast Measurements
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2015, 04:32:39 AM »

Modded MDR-Z7 Thoughts

- Based on memory, seems a bit better integrated across the board than the modded-but-not-as-much-as-this-one Z7 I heard before.
- Pretty good bass impact with the right amp, more so than I remember on the other pair. Sounds like ass from a phone, though.
- Can be a bit murky sounding down low. Could use some extra detail and pitch differentiation. A bit north of neutral in the bass overall, but generally tastefully so IMO. I don't mind it. Might actually kinda like it.
- Has a hashy, harsh quality to it. Not necessarily what I'd call bright, though, just, well, harsh/hashy. Sounds like a sort of ever-present grain or static noise that smears across the treble. It sort of sounds like a mix of a constant high-pitched ringing or treble spike mixed with a weird sounding hiss. (Imagine someone spreading their mouth thin and making an obnoxious, throaty-but-not-low-pitched hissing sound.)
- Soundstage isn't too bad, but layering suffers because of what I just mentioned above. Airiness might be OK, but also hard to tell because of this.
- Not the fastest, clearest, blackest, or most detailed headphone I've heard. The slightly murky bass and harsh treble don't help. Seems to fit the mid-fi category at best.
- I do think these would sound pretty nice if the treble were smoothed out, TBH. They're actually closer to where I'd like them to be than I'm probably letting on.
- I lasted longer on these than the modded LCD-2.
- All the metal mesh and other pad mods look weird. :P

Measurements (Quick Take, Left Channel)

My guess is that 1.5KHz dip is just inherent to the Z7. Same thing on the last pair I tried.  Keep in mind the last pair I measured was with my old mic, so results are not 100% comparable. I think the harsh, hashy stuff I heard was a combination of the ~3.5KHz bump + ~7KHz spike and any associated ringing, even if slight. I didn't play with EQ, but I bet knocking those down would make these sound quite nice.

I've also attached measurements showing what happens when you put a disc of 1/8" or 1/4" thick open-cell charcoal foam in front of the drivers. Subjectively, this did help the treble. It made some other elements better, some worse. I didn't spend much time listening to this, TBH, but the measured results are interesting.
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Re: Bill-p's Modded Headphones - Some Thoughts and Fast Measurements
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2015, 04:42:44 AM »

Thanks, Hans.

Yeah, I do hear this one like you described. A bit... weird in the treble, but if that's taken away, I think it could very well be the best mid-fi closed-back headphone around for my taste. Much better than the LCD-XC and much more bearable than TH900 IMO.

Bass is just inherently muddy. Driver too powerful for plastic housing. This one needs a much more rigid baffle for the driver to sit on, so if Sony would just sacrifice a bit of comfort for that, I think it would be awesome!

And yeah, metal mesh and pad mods are there to scare ya! :P I think I'll put a piece of fabric to mask the metal mesh stuffs and then it'll be less weird. The whole reason why that is there is actually to achieve a better seal between ear pads and driver baffle. I think it makes a slight bit of difference with bass, but it does make the 3.5KHz ringing worse.
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Hands

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Re: Bill-p's Modded Headphones - Some Thoughts and Fast Measurements
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2015, 04:47:34 AM »

Modded ATH-ES10 Thoughts

- Lots of bass. Rather thick and boomy sounding. Stuffy. But sometimes details, impact, and bass quickness come through that you don't expect.
- Seems to be some sort of very slight upper-mid or lower-treble oddness. Maybe a slight peak or unevenness. Just a bit of roughness in the background is what I hear with this.
- I want to called this cupped or honky sounding? Probably not the best terms to use...not sure how others would describe it.
- Some sort of slight, but persistent, crunching sound during some music. At first, I thought this might be some sort of treble oddity, but then it started to sound like it might be some sort of distortion or resonance. Almost like a really faint foil rattling sound that comes out with male vocals. But then I later thought it might just be some sort of weird midrange emphasis. That was my last thought in my notes. *shrug*
-Veiled sounding overall in upper-mids and treble. However, there are moments of decently clean clarity. It's a gamble, or maybe you could consider it hit and miss here. Sometimes things come through that you don't expect, and sometimes things just get missed that shouldn't.
- Easy to listen to, sort of fun even.
- The least "hi-fi" sounding of the lot. Yet the lasted longest on my head...
- Male vocals sometime sound like they're coming through a radio depending on vocal range and various albums.
- Cups are pretty!
- Pads are weird but work better than I expected in terms of sound and comfort.

Measurements

I think a lot of the weird things I'm hearing are more just frequency response oddities than distortion or resonance issues. Fairly broad bass hump, followed by a broad dip, followed by a mid-to-upper-mid hump, followed by downward-slowing, jaggy treble. My guess is it's the midrange hump + 7KHz spike that cause the main oddities I mentioned. Distortion is actually pretty low, and aside from not having the cleanest CSDs in the mids (though there's only so much my setup can capture), treble decay isn't super fast but doesn't have any super horrible ringing.
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Bill-p

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Re: Bill-p's Modded Headphones - Some Thoughts and Fast Measurements
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2015, 04:53:38 AM »

LOL

Sometimes you hear things you don't expect, and then sometimes you don't hear things you'd expect.

 :)p13 :)p13 :)p13 :)p13

Can we call this one the "enigmatic" headphone? <- I'm intentionally being cheeky.  :)p8

Honestly, interesting thoughts on these. Thanks for the laugh, too! That was like... the best description I've heard in a while!
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Hands

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Re: Bill-p's Modded Headphones - Some Thoughts and Fast Measurements
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2015, 05:04:44 AM »

Haha, glad you got some laughs out of that. Just don't take everything I've said TOO seriously. Make sure you end up being the ultimate judge on what works for you. :)

Now just waiting on the next headphone to get in...
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