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Author Topic: AZ's modded PM-2s  (Read 6985 times)

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AZ

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Re: AZ's modded PM-2s
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2015, 04:07:09 AM »


If you are experiensing that much variation maybe you should revisit your rig. Unless you are certain all variation is due to pads. But on the other hand note how Tyll's investigation and discussion with Igor ended in an agreement that these cans do not change dramatically with pads... I mean I measured things with the PM-1 and PM-2 pads in the past. They may sound a bit different, but they did not measured dramatically different as what one would expect with something like an electrostat or something like that.

   To finish up the measurement thingy I can say that my random measurements of different pads from few months ago do correlate perfectly (within 0.5db) to the ones done just recently when all four brand new pads arrived along with brand new PM-2s. This for me removes the rig variation concerns but I would certainly agree small variations should exist within reason just not something like 5db. 
   Tyll's article and measurements of OPPO pads (http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/oppo-ear-pads-listening-and-measurements) clearly indicate significant, also up to 5db variations in frequency response for different pads. That is quite noteworthy considering some small differences had to be smoothed out by how he averages multiple takes and compensates for HATS. Though it would be really interesting to see how my PMx2s would measure on his rig.
   Once at it will say a few things from my own experience about in ear measurements similar to those Hans uses. Crucial points for those are the insertion depth, angle of the mike relatively to the driver, acoustical properties of the material used to secure the mike inside the ear canal ( different materials would create different pressure within the coupler,  different materials will also exhibit different reflections with the tip of the mike, different distance for the tip of the mike related to the surround material will also play a huge role ). Only considering all of the above one could imagine how correct combination is probably incredibly difficult to strike. Then add a different shape and size of the pinna, hair on it, then properties of hair surrounding the ear itself and finally properties of the skin. Seriously complicated would be an understatement.
   Well either way Hans is correct, what really maters is how they sound to the listener and I can tell already they really don't seem to sound the same for all, that's a shame. Ideal set should sound great for all, just a dream for now but what could stop us from achieving such dream? My answer is nothing, we just have to keep on working!
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 04:31:40 AM by AZ »
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Audio Zenith PMx2 Impressions and Measurements
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2015, 05:54:42 AM »

All bullshit aside, I'm very thoroughly enjoying the Audio Zenith PMx2 (official name, as I understand it). These headphones are right up my alley. The previous iteration I heard sounded good, but it wasn't quite where I wanted it to be. Not that I'm the guy designing it, but you get the idea. Apparently Alex agreed there. That earlier one sounded a bit too mid-centric for me. Smooth and laid-back, yes, but something was missing. What I'm hearing on what I believe is the final AZ PMx2 is the sort of sound that is very pleasing and very easy to sink into.

Tonality is probably the highlight of this headphone. Nice extension on both ends. Full-bodied, but balanced, sound. Plenty of well-controlled kick down low. Very cohesive and integrated sound from top to bottom. However, it is on the darker or laid-back side of neutral, but not in any sort of way that jumps out at you. It just sounds "right" to me without about everything I throw at it. Very smooth sounding. Granted, I like a more laid-back, smooth sound, so these fit my tastes almost perfectly. I suspect some will find them a bit too polite.

In a way, these are more in line with the sort of response of the PM-1 (w/ velour pads). Except the PM-1 sounded kinda dead, or "limp-dick" as I said originally. The PM-1 was also sort of claustrophobic sounding. Warm, clean sounding in some regards and a bit soft or smears in others, but generally lifeless. Not sterile, just boring over time. But the overall tone, cohesiveness, and smoothness were big drawing factors for me. The AZ PMx2 captures those positive aspects but inject life into the sound. Bass has more authority and life to it. The warmth from the PM-1 is better controlled. The clean, smooth, fatigue free sound from the mids on up is there but sounds less restricted. There's a noticeable gain in airiness and lower-end presence or reverberation. Soundstage no longer feels like you're being strangled in a very narrow french fry hallway. The PMx2 is not the most open sounding headphone I've heard, but it certainly doesn't sound closed anymore. It's still a bit two-dimensional and at times lacks a bit in the center area, but it sounds wider from left to right than either the stock PM-1 or PM-2. These minor issues are things I generally put pretty low on my list of what matters most to me with headphone sound.

As mentioned, the treble is quite smooth and easy to listen to. Thankfully, the PMx2 is decently resolving and decently fast. It's not the absolute fastest, blackest, clearest, or cleanest sounding headphone I've heard across the spectrum, but it doesn't sound veiled or smeared. Nor is it the snappiest sounding headphone. Like I said, it's smooth and more on the laid-back side, but not dull or sleepy. It captures a very pleasing balance in my mind. I still get the upper-end details and resolution I want, but in a smooth, fairly fast, and fatigue-free manner. Depending on your source, you may hear a bit of extra "sparkle" or sharpness on the top-end of the PMx2. I think the mid or upper-treble is just a bit lifted relative to the immediately surrounding areas, but pleasantly so and still laid-back in comparison.

If anything the PMx2 might be a little more laid-back up top than even the HD650. That's how I hear it compared to my HD650. But the PMx2 somehow sounds better integrated despite this. The HD650 doesn't sound nearly as smooth up top. It has a brighter, sharper, and more grainy top-end presentation compared to the PMx2. The HD600 is more "hot" sounding than either, around the 2-4KHz area, which is something the PMx2 is definitely not subject to. The PMx2 just seems to get out of the way despite sounding more laid-back to me than the HD600 or HD650. Sure, the latter follow a more neutral response on average, but with less cohesion and integration. Less "rightness," or whatever. Just throwing out the same wor ds over and over.

I also have to say that I much prefer the visual accents on the PMx2 over what I tested previously. Instead of the gold and carbon fiber theme, the PMx2 follows the PM-2's silver and black theme but with an added holographic tint. Maybe it just brings me back to the excitement of finding a holographic Pokemon card in a booster pack as a child, or maybe it makes me feel more like I'm living in the future, but I like it.

All in all, I think the AZ PMx2 is excellent. Sure, it's on the laid-back, smooth side of things, but it does so in such a way that somehow doesn't sound particularly colored, dull, closed, or bassy. It strikes a balance that not only fits well with me but perhaps just sounds more "right" than any other headphone I've tested recently.

As I understand it, the modding process is actually quite lengthy, involved, and costly for each headphone. I don't know specifics, but there seem to be a lot of under-the-hood tweaks that are meant to look entirely seamless. For example, I know there are quite a few mods done to the pads alone (internally, that is), but you'd have a hard time telling given how well put together it all is. I had to be told about the pad mods before I noticed them. Yes, that seamless. And Alex isn't cranking these out like MrSpeakers does with his Dog line of headphones. So, given the care put into each one and how nice they sound, I'm not put off by the relatively high price. You can do a lot worse for the same price or higher. And I'd put a bit premium on something sounding this "right" to my ears.

Someone asked me in the previous AZ thread/shit storm if I'd buy a pair myself. That model I heard, probably not at the listed price, and I think some of you picked up on that hesitation. With the current PMx2...well, I've already told Alex a couple times that I want a pair after hearing them. I usually throw a fit about the industry's pricing standards, but I'd probably find a way to pony up the cost for these simply because they work so well for me.

I think after all the time and effort Alex spent working on these, it's finally starting to pay off handsomely with a great pair of headphones.  :)p5 (YMMV unless you cut off my head and use it as your own. I ask you to please refrain from doing so.)

OK, enough of that. Let's get on to the pretty lines.

Pretty Line Analysis - Sorry, No Anime Boobs for Ultrabike

I'll admit, I was a bit surprised by how measurements turned out for the PMx2. I was expecting a bit less bass and less of that upper tilt in the 4-10KHz region. Actually, I was expected a bit less of a sloped response in general. Measurements make these seem darker than they sound subjectively, but they are indeed more on the laid-back side. With the bass peaking around 40-50Hz, I think that gives them a nice sense of impact. From there, you have an very linear response to about 3KHz. Realistically, you can expect that notch in the treble to be filled out. I think the depression centered around 2-3KHz helps them sound so smooth and laid-back, yet integrated enough, and the treble uplift helps give them a nice sense of detail and upper-end life. Channel matching is quite good. I didn't hear anything off about that subjectively. In a way, this response sorta-kinda reminds me of the Slants I measured, except the PMx2 shifts the bass emphasis lower in the registers in comparison. I don't think they subjectively sound all that similar...just something I noticed in terms of graphs.

Distortion results are good, as expected. The PM-1/2 midrange distortion weirdness is still present, but I don't subjectively hear it as a problem and never really have. Towards the bass, the PMx2 more or less hits the limits of my measurement rig in terms of distortion. With measurements that turned out really well (averaging sort of covers this up), distortion was basically a flat line down to 10Hz. That area is fickle with my setup.

CSDs are clean as expected. The trail around 1KHz also shows up to an extent on the stock PM-2. I didn't hear anything out of the ordinary or unpleasant here.

Do note that with my in-ear mic now being in a smaller tri-flange tip, any measurement results after and including the K7XX will tend to have a greater treble emphasis beyond 3-4KHz or so than earlier measurements.
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Hands

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Re: AZ's modded PM-2s
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2015, 05:56:19 AM »

Any chance we can get a linky on the first post to my impressions and measurements so folks don't have to wade through as much crap to get to them? Thanks a lot if so. :)
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ultrabike

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Re: AZ's modded PM-2s
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2015, 06:21:40 AM »

Linky added.

BTW, as promised, here are a few more measurements from my rig (4 times after re positioning):



And here are comparos with stock version of a PM-1 and a PM-2



Against previous iteration of Alex's mod



And finally a zoom in version of the 4 independent measurements of the current PM-X2 (didn't try too hard to align to the baffle)

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ultrabike

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Re: AZ's modded PM-2s
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2015, 06:32:18 AM »

 :)p13 Wait a minute. Hands, you do seem to show a valley around 2-3 kHz there.

I agree with "the PM-1/2 midrange distortion weirdness is still present". I think this is a limitation of the driver as pretty much all Oppo based drivers have it. One may not be sensitive to it, but I think that's where my "glare" issue comes from... Otherwise I dunno.

As far as grain, I definitively hear more grain with the Oppos (including the PM-X2) than the HD6x0s, and find the Oppos and iterations a little less "right" (again, whatever that means).

Would I pay $600 for the PM-2s? In light of the HD600s, proly no. But these are definitively not bad. I think the bass area is superior and offer quite decent mids and treble.
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Re: AZ's modded PM-2s
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2015, 07:34:32 AM »

I guess we hear those headphones differently then. Btw are those PM1 and 2 measurements all with velour pads? Even then I am surprised all of them measure so similarly (though just PM1 and 2 should be very close).
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Re: AZ's modded PM-2s
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2015, 07:37:49 AM »

Yep. All velour.

Did leather comparo for the PM-1s in the past though:



This seems to be in agreement with Tyll's independent findings, as far as measurements is concerned with these particular cans.

For clarification, the above are PM-1s with different pads, not PM-X2s.
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Solderdude

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Re: AZ's modded PM-2s
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2015, 08:30:55 AM »

That's quite decent L-R matching though.

I guess we are back to the 'who's measurement/correction method' is most correct in an absolute sense discussion and how different people perceive the same thing differently.
As in: what's one mans 'detail' is another man's treble horror and what's one mans 'accurate' is anothers 'dull, boomy, bass-shy, shrill'.
Fun to debate though and reading this topic  popcorn
Never heard an Oppo nor measured one so can't post my opinion but can relate to UB's and AZ's measurements the best (I know how 'off' the in ear thing can be) and know by now that UB's perception is 'similar' to mine.
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AZ

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Re: AZ's modded PM-2s
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2015, 03:56:05 PM »

   HUGE thanks to both Hans and Ultra for all the measurements, impressions, honesty and most of all willingness to work with a hard case like me.
    Glad you both liked the cans better then the original Oppo's and considering how good PM-1/2 sound and well regarded by so many audiophiles and major publications to begin with this must be a great sign. Well at least to me it is so kudos to you guys! :)p1
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Re: AZ's modded PM-2s
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2015, 11:41:35 PM »

No problem, Alex! I've had fun with it and am glad to help out.

Ultra, not that I generally doubt your measurements much, but I guess I'm just surprised the PMx2 measured so similarly to the stock PM-1 or 2. Just seems a bit too homogeneous for me, and I subjectively hear a larger difference. Even compared to the HD600. Dunno. Also, what amps have you tried the OPPOs from? IME certain setups and amps make them sound more strained and grainy than others, but I believe that you heard what you heard when you listened to these.
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