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Author Topic: Soren's R-2R Dac  (Read 15989 times)

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Hroðulf

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Priidik

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Re: Soren's R-2R Dac
« Reply #121 on: August 16, 2015, 05:20:30 PM »

Hey mates!

A friends Yggdrasil spent a month on my desk.
I figured I should share my thoughts on Dam vs Yggdrasil vs BMC before my memory or notes of Yggs (i don't like the word Yggy personally, sry) sound fade.

Soundstage: Dam has less fleshed out instruments geometrically than Yggs, some very fine sounds are missing in 3d space as well in Dam. Overall the shape and size is very similar b/w the two. Imaging precision is comparable b/w the two. Image size differences are easier to make out with Yggs. Some sounds pop more from Dam, dunno if its diverging from realism or not. BMC soundstage is super claustraphobic in comparison, esp with speakers. I have jet to hear a S-D dac that does proper depth in soundstage.
Yggs 10
Dam 8
BMC 2

Tonal balance: Yggs has slightly more inner warmth than Dam, but not the kind of warmth that comes from tubes. BMC is coldest of the three. Bass and treble tone and quality are almost the same from Yggs and Dam. Lower mids are slightly laid back from Dam. BMC clearly has issues with faithfull vocal reproduction. BMC (or any other S_D dac I have heard) has almost no meaningful information in top two octaves, just noise and garbage. Really, the extension is missing. Yggs has some sort of smokiness to lower register vocals, like alto and lower. It's like a good 10yo single malt.
Yggs 10
Dam 9
BMC 5

Macrodynamics (MaD): The Yggs gives this one to Dam in most cases. The Dam has sharper, more lively, energetic presentation. Transients explode into existance, if it makes sense. Yggs is very slightly soft in direct comparison. In some occasions the Yggs sounds sturdier, stronger, maybe its sustain of sounds is better and more realistic. Background blackness is actually comparable between Yggs and Dam after last mod I made to my Dam. BMC is just soft and lifeless in comparison to the others, despite being the best S-D dac in this regard I have heard.
Yggs 9
Dam 10
BMC 4

Microdynamics (MiD): Yggs is breathing easier between soft sounds vs Dam. Dam is feeling slightly empty sounding as a result, like some sections of room are missing. Maybe the correct term would be continuity, that is better from Yggs. I think the microdynamics part is responsible for some trails and tails of sounds that Yggs does and Dam does not. A good analogy is a professional singer who spells out words vs a amateur singer who does not completely. The gap widened when Yggs was playing back music for a week, ie got warm. Warm up influences Dam the same way, but is less troublesome. BMC is just severely lacking in realism vs the others. The whole presentation of BMC is both grainy and soft at the same time probably as a result of lacking in MiD and MaD.
Yggs 10
Dam 8
BMC 2

TL-DR
In most cases realism is better from Yggdrasil. 3 tracks out of 10 the Dam is the more exiting or even more realistic sounding device, but Yggs gives away less to Dam than Dam gives away to Yggs. It is safe to say the Yggs slightly outclasses the Dam.
Yesterday when Yggs was removed from my grasp I already begun to miss it. The Dam does the technicalities almost as good as Yggs, but some sort of magic is missing. I can only blame the real 20bit precison in this, maybe i'm wrong. BMC just sucks in comparison.

Gear used:

Random PC or Raspy2(Volumio) as source.
Yggs (SE)/Dam --> Passive SMD stepper --> Genelec 8050A Used most of the time, showcasing differences b/w dacs better than anything else I had.
Yggs (SE)/Dam --> Passive SMD stepper --> Adam A3x / Adam A5x
Yggs(SE)/Dam  --> Passive SMD stepper --> Cavalli Ehha rev A (moded)--> HD650/HD800(Anax'd) Second best reference rig I had.
Yggs(BAL)/Dam --> Pinnacle --> HD800(Anax'd)

Worth noting: the super modded Dam I have is p retty much 2x better sounding than simplest stock version can be.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 10:49:07 PM by Priidik »
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vhsownsbeta

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Re: Soren's R-2R Dac
« Reply #122 on: August 16, 2015, 08:35:00 PM »

Thanks for the comparo priidik. You actually put dam closer to yggs than I thought it would be, very promising. I would love to build one if I could find the time...

The new firmware is out! http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/259488-reference-dac-module-discrete-r-2r-sign-magnitude-24-bit-384-khz-328.html#post4421518

New mode setting: Normal, Inverted, Balanced Left, Balanced Right

New firmware allows dual mono?  :)p1
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Priidik

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Re: Soren's R-2R Dac
« Reply #123 on: August 18, 2015, 08:14:56 AM »

I would love to build one if I could find the time...


If not for the fun of building a Dam, I'd go straight to the MB Gungnir for slightly (if any, due to mods one has to make to Dam + case) more money, given that it is per Marv and Co nearly as good as Yggs.

How nearly, I dunno but it is likely that the multibit Gungnir is still a bit better dac than the Dam, at least in microdynamics and thus the Dam is not the king of value any more in the higher end of dacs, I'm afraid.
At this point preferences and/or downstream gear could be in decisive role, too.
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Hroðulf

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Re: Soren's R-2R Dac
« Reply #124 on: August 18, 2015, 10:37:48 AM »

My big project would be to do an eight channel Minisharc plus 4xDAM setup for fully digital crossover, room compensation system.
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Priidik

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Re: Soren's R-2R Dac
« Reply #125 on: August 18, 2015, 11:13:05 AM »

That would be pure epicness  popcorn

Such cross-over'ed by Dams properly class A amped diy speaker should scale to heavens.

The latest upgrades in Dam and introduction to Yggs has left headphones to dust for me. Shit room or great room no matter.
Genelecs just scale so much more, despite it's cheap chip amps. I quit making sense in this.

 
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 12:04:11 PM by Priidik »
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Hroðulf

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Re: Soren's R-2R Dac
« Reply #126 on: August 18, 2015, 12:49:37 PM »

Doesn't have to be class-A, using class D for bass is perfectly fine. Mids and highs doesn't need too much juice, so that's where quality amplification is most needed.

Also the room is extremely important, especially under 1KHz where room acoustics determine everything. 10-30dB dips and peaks are common.
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cspirou

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Re: Soren's R-2R Dac
« Reply #127 on: September 15, 2015, 01:32:07 PM »

I was reading about this dac at hifiduino and saw that you can upload your own filters. I have been super intrigued by the Schiit closed form filter and I was wondering if such a filter could be adapted to this DAC?
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MisterRogers

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Re: Soren's R-2R Dac
« Reply #128 on: September 15, 2015, 02:39:52 PM »

Well, no - not really. Firstly, it's proprietary, secondly, it'd require quite a bit more of a CPU then the Soren has (computer, taps).
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Priidik

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Re: Soren's R-2R Dac
« Reply #129 on: September 15, 2015, 07:58:52 PM »

We got some more taps recently.  :)p6
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