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Author Topic: Comparative Impressions between 3 different Audeze  (Read 2244 times)

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rhythmdevils

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Comparative Impressions between 3 different Audeze
« on: April 02, 2012, 08:44:34 PM »

I thought I'd try to finally write my thoughts down about the Audeze's I've heard.  I've got an LCD-2 rev2 here that I think sounds better than the LCD-3rev1.  It's the best Audeze I've heard and I feel like I've finally gotten a taste of what I wanted them to sound like all along.  And it's not better than the LCD-3 as in a "different flavor" that I happen to prefer, it really just sounds better- it's similar except it has more clarity, more detailed, sounds faster, and it actually has better soundstage.  The LCD-3 sounded a bit smoother, but it was also glossed over.  Here's some quick notes on the different Audeze's I've heard, in order of preference. And from memory. And I'm kind of tired right now, so forgive me if I'm rambling here.

LCD-2 rev1
"WTF is wrong with these" was what I thought as soon as I put them on. Tried to like them for months, but could hardly make it through a single song.  Everything sounded reverby like it was coming through a cement tunnel, or like every recording was made in a cement basement with no acoustic treatment.  I considered that maybe they were "so revealing" that I was just hearing the recordings really well, but it was the exact same coloration on all recordings and wasn't there on any of my other headphones including orthos, nor on my speakers.  I could hear something good in there, but it was all mucked up with this resonant coloration.  I thought they were defective until I compared them to others and they didn't sound significantly different. And to be clear, I'm not talking about warmth, or lack of treble.  It wasn't an FR issue.  There may have been that problem as well, but I couldn't listen to them long enough to get to that.

LCD-3 rev1
Almost no reverb, still a bit though but 95% less or something like that.  And I would describe it the same way as being sickly sweet or nausiating, like a tunnel effect but again, greatly reduced.  I was very pleased by the nice smooth sound that was quite a relief from almost all other headphones.  It was hard not to feel positive about them considering how rare this is. They seemed to commit very few of the sins that most headphones commit.  I kept coming back to thinking that their strength was in what they didn't do wrong rather than what they did right, and their weaknesses were in what they didn't do well enough rather than what they did wrong.  Purrin described this as "errors of omission rather than errors of commission" which in fact is no small feat considering the very troublesome artifacts almost all headphones add to the musical picture and which my number one priority in headphone-dom is to avoid.  So I had a bit of trouble evaluating them because their strengths/weakness lined up decently with my preferred strenghts/weaknesses (if I had to choose, I'd of course rather have it all).  Their signature wasn't as immediately apparent as most headphones, where I put them on and I can immediately hear all this glaring crap added on top of the recording that shouldn't be there.  But I never really liked them that much, despite these strengths, from my first listen I felt rather underwhelmed.  It took a few days to get over my good vibes about not hearing "the glaring crap" and attribute my underwhelmed reaction to the things they were leaving out and glossing over. 

First of all, despite being better than most phones, they still were not quite as smooth sounding as I'd like them to be especially for how warm they were.  There was a very narrow part of the FR range that stuck out and certain bits of sounds would stick out and jab a little bit, like fingers on the guitar strings or something which was a strange and slightly sickening sensat ion considering the lack of treble energy to go along with it.  Felt kind of like being kissed and punched at the same time.  But it wasn't too bad.  They lacked clarity, and me and a few other people  preferred my Yamaha YH3 (which I spent 2 years modifying and carefully tuning, so not stock at all, and probably shouldn't be considered cheap given how much time I spent on them) because it actually had more clarity, more air, about equal amount of detail and a more transparent midrange.  Of course the LCD-3 had bigger soundstage, better bass extention and was more refined in some ways, but not by much.  I had been listening to these quite a bit and I was expecting the LCD-3 with it's huge modern driver to be much better in every way.  Along with how heavy and cumbersome they were, it made them seem kind of silly and I reached for my Yamahas every single time.  The LCD-3 lacked air, sharpness and a sense of precision in the treble.  It also seemed to be recessed in general and just kind of dull.  Cymbals sounded kind of mechanical and muffled, something I've heard others say before.  They lacked the clean shimmer that cymbals should have.  Of course, my yamahas have some of this mechanical quality in the treble as well, but less of it, and more air.  FWIW, this is coming from someone who really hates over-pronounced treble/upper mids. the 3's also had a kind of cloud or what people call a veil over the midrange, which just didn't sound as transparent as it should have. 

So in the end and to summarize, they sounded good to me, and totally listenable and enjoyable with their smooth, even sounding presentation where nothing (or at least less than most phones) jumps out at you.  I would describe them as a supercharged HD650 in every way.  Similar even, unoffensive signature with improvements in speed, detail and bass depth-texture-detail, but similar weaknesses of sounding dull and leaving out subtle nuances in the music.  I would prefer them on sonics alone to most other headphones which sacrifice this smooth, even presentation for clarity.  But for 2k, and considering the size and weight you have to put up with, I don't want to make sacrifices like that.  I wanted to keep the smooth even-ness and add more clarity, speed and transparency overall, and a cleaner, airier treble presentation (and maybe upper mids as well).

LCD-2 rev2 (Questhate's pair)
I think less reverb than the LCD-3rev1, though it may be equal it's hard to tell without A/Bing directly.  More clarity.  Imaging is better.  Vocals sound more natural with the added clarity.  More transparent than the LCD-3rev1.  It seems to have most of the even presentation of the LCD-3, but maybe not quite as smooth.  I think the bass on these is better than the LCD-3rev1.   Bass goes deep and is more articulate, but isn't overbearing or bloated, there is less soft focus.  But similarly to the LCD-3 you can tell the drivers are not flinching at all with even the deepest bass notes, even when driven by an ipod.  As a long term listening headphone, I may want less bass than this, it's sometimes a bit intense hearing this much bass so close to the ear though it does sound fairly accurate, as it's not always there nor is it the same through different recordings, it has that chameleon quality that is the hallmark of neutrality and accuracy.  Soundstage is bigger than the LCD-3.  First time I've listened to an Audeze and felt that the sound was being projected beyond the 2-D plane of the drivers, I heard sounds coming from outside the cups.  It's still not great though, and feels kind of "cupped" or closed in.  You could call it intimate though that has a positive twist that may not be totally realistic.  It's mostly the bit of reverb that's left.  Vocals are more in l ine with what I expect from an ortho.  They didn't have the nausiating reverby, warm but thin vocal reproduction of the rev1, and were more transparent than the LCD-3.  (yes, I found the 2rev1 to have pretty mediocre vocals, they were warm headphones overall, but the vocals lacked richness, lacked clarity/transparency/air, and were somehow kind of warm dry and thin all at the same time.  I expect vocals to at least capture either the warmth or breathy qualities of vocals, and the rev1 got neither one right for me).  The Rev2 isn't perfect though, it still has recessed and kind of mechanical, plodding treble (I don't mean upper mids) although I think it's better than the LCD-3.  Cymbals should have more of the shimmer and air I was talking about before.  Not terrible, but not great for a 1k headphone.  If treble is important to you, it might bother you.  I could ignore it I think and just groove with the midrange.  But I haven't had much time with them yet.  I think one reason the bass can come off as being too strong is that they don't have the treble to balance it out.  They also are not as smooth as the LCD-3, they have more uneven sound in the upper registers.  The feeling I got going from my T50rp to the rev2 was that someone had turned on a "sound enhancer" filter or something, or like someone had tried to turn a film shot in 2D to 3D, so some of it was sticking out in an uneven way, wasn't totally coherent. This wasn't that bothersome at all, but it was there and gave vocals a shouty quality sometimes.  This shout was more evident when a vocalist sings up the FR range starting before the shoutty range, so you can hear the voice come into the shout and leave it again, as if a certain FR range in their voice starts resonating and then stops as they continue to climb.  Again, not as bad as even the HP1000.  Some of these things may in fact be part of the sense of clarity.  But my T50rp sounds more even/smooth in the upper mids and treble, has more treble quantity and cleaner treble.  Of course, they don't have as accurate a bass response.  And I think the LCD-2rev2 has a bit more midrange detail. This rev2 has a lot of midrange detail.  First time I've wanted to use that description, as they are very detailed, but it all comes through in the midrange, not in the treble.

Overall, Questhate's LCD-2rev2 is a pretty darn good headphone.  I'd take them over the stock HD800 and HE6 except that I'd never own one due to the ergonomics.  I have yet to compare to the HE500.  I can say with certainty that the LCD-2 bass is better and I think their midrange might be as well, but the HE500 has better, cleaner treble. If I were to put a worth price on this LCD-2rev2 I'd price it at 600 dollars, but most hi-end headphones are overpriced compared to their performance so that's not as much of a diss as you might think. Overall, they sound really even for a headphone.  They have outstanding bass, very detailed gorgeous midrange that has natural warmth, but is clear and transparent though occasionally slightly shoutty, and decent-ish treble that is kind of dull and recessed and not as transparent as the rest of the spectrum but on the flip side, not harsh or exaggerated.  They are very very fast sounding in the bass to midrange, but not so fast sounding in the treble.  They have a small intimate soundstage but with good imaging and placement. 

It's worth noting that this is likely a good version.  There is quite a bit of variation between units within the same "revision" and model.  Based on others impressions who I trust I'm pretty sure this is one of the better rev2's out there.  And probably one of the better Audeze's out there in general.

Other thoughts:
The ergonomics of the Audeze's are terrible.  I&# 039;ve always felt that way, but I've been trying to be positive about them and hearing a better sounding pair made it all the more apparent because I want to listen to them more.  Why the hell did they put a rectangular driver in such a huge round enclosure anyways?  All the baffle and pads sticking out in the front and back (and top/bottom as well) of the driver are useless and make them the awkward face huggers they are.  If they had put them in Lambda like enclosures they'd be way more comfortable.  I could hardly stand keeping the LCD-3 on my head either.  I feel like I'm wearing a medical device at the doctor's office.  Except I don't get any candy or stickers afterwards. 

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Questhate

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Re: Comparative Impressions between 3 different Audeze
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2012, 03:36:33 AM »

Very interesting read!

The LCD-2r2 were my first taste of orthos, and I went from initially being underwhelmed to completely enthralled with them and then the love affair being tempered by some nagging issues.

I did demo another pair of Rev 2's for probably an hour or so in the store. I'm certain the demo pair had more bass and an overall thicker bottom-end than my pair. After all the hype I read on HF about them, my first reaction upon putting them on was "that's it?". Not sure exactly what I expected, but definitely something more. After wrapping my mind around its sound, I started to appreciate that detailed midrange that you describe. It packed so much information within its seemingly confined space. I wasn't sure at the time whether the soundstage was truly small, or if it was just so dense that it made it seem small. Also, coming from Grados, hearing the Audeze's with its lower tonal center and detailed bass made elements in the music more weighty and carry a certain mass to it. At the time I was impressed enough to buy a pair, but I do remember leaving wishing there was more air and a shift in tonal balance to slightly more treble/less bass.

I definitely know what you mean about the lack of coherency in the upper registers. At certain points in the music, certain things jump out of place which at times is distracting enough to hold it back to being truly involving. I do wish it had a bit more treble presence. There's a slight dullness about it, and it begins to feel constricted after a while. Although, those aspects also lead it to be one of the more non-fatiguing headphones I've heard. It's one of the few headphones where Miles Davis's muted trumpet does not make me cringe. But then again, although its not fatiguing in the sense of treble harshness, its constricted and dense sound does get fatiguing after longer sessions. Even putting on Grados afterward, which also has a similarly crowded soundstage, the extra airiness is like... a breath of fresh air.

I wonder if I would have been as impressed by them if I had previous experience with orthos. It seems like LCD-2s are most people's first taste of orthos. Even playing around with the T50RP, there are times where I've had certain aspects of it better than the LCD-2. I just haven't quite been able to find the balance to nail them all down at the same time.

Even though they're not the Jesus-phone that HF makes them out to be, I do get the appeal of them. They're smooth, non-fatiguing, and their dark presentation helps mask the treble problems (which is the biggest problem of most headphones). That leads them to sound pretty natural in the grand scheme of things as a result.
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Maxvla

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Re: Comparative Impressions between 3 different Audeze
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2012, 04:29:42 AM »

Agreed on most points. The LCD2 I found charming, but not all that accurate. I didn't have quite the distaste you did, but I also felt they were murky and muddy in a way that's not exactly related to their speed. Just something about them told me to stay away. Later at another meet a few weeks ago I had a chance to listen to a couple more pairs, these were Rev 2s and they sounded better, but still just too dark and not right.

I found the LCD3 to be a significant upgrade but for me it was heavily dependent on the chain in front of it, unlike the LCD2 which sounded average on every rig. I listened to them through systems STARTING at $4,000 (amp and dac) up to $30,000 and found them to only be good with the second most expensive rig at the show. They were merely average on the other rigs, and downright terrible with the most expensive system (Pinnacle/Meridian).

After my experience with the SR-007 and HE-6 at home and many planar setups at meets, I just don't know if they are for me. The artificially thin and fast sound, with a noticeably tighter soundstage (makes me a little claustrophobic at times) gets to me after a while, despite the huge drop in grain going from most dynamics to even the most average of planars (LCD2). This is why I've ordered an HD800 pinning all of my hopes on pouring everything I can into a rig that will make them truly outstanding, while also being great with my UERM at the same time. I've heard the HD800 many times and they've never been worse than average, and have usually been very good so I'm hopeful it will work out. It's part of why I went ahead and bought a new pair and had them customized instead of buying a used pair. This is my headphone for quite a while. The rest of the gear will be used to tune the HD800.
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Marvey

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Re: Comparative Impressions between 3 different Audeze
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2012, 06:07:43 AM »

The 007 need a good amp to drive them. They sound all wierd if not properly amped. The STAX need the right source too, otherwise they tend to always have a tinny and thin quality to the treble.


Just curious on the LCD3 from the Pinnacle. Do you know if the knob was set to High Output Z? If so, that would explain a lot. Also, the Meridian house sound is pretty darn "organic" (for lack of a better term) for a high-end DAC. Not my flavor.
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Maxvla

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Re: Comparative Impressions between 3 different Audeze
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2012, 06:11:08 AM »

Biggest problem I had with the Pinnacle setup was that there was no center, completely void. Single person singing came from 10 and 2, nothing at all from center. I couldn't listen longer than a couple songs.
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gurubhai

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Re: Comparative Impressions between 3 different Audeze
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2012, 08:11:24 AM »

@RDS : Have you ever tried listening the LCD2 completely open back (without the grilles & felt) ?
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Marvey

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Re: Comparative Impressions between 3 different Audeze
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2012, 11:45:49 PM »

Biggest problem I had with the Pinnacle setup was that there was no center, completely void. Single person singing came from 10 and 2, nothing at all from center. I couldn't listen longer than a couple songs.


That can be easily solved if you are using computer audio. Just decrease the Stereo width setting to on whatever player you are using.
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rhythmdevils

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Re: Comparative Impressions between 3 different Audeze
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2012, 01:26:53 AM »

@RDS : Have you ever tried listening the LCD2 completely open back (without the grilles & felt) ?

I listened to Marv's LCD-3 with no grill and didn't really hear any difference with or without.  Tried the same with the HE500 and didn't notice any difference.  I imagine your fancy damping makes a difference though  ;D   

Hopefully these impressions were useful.  It was from memory, so I wasn't really able to be super specific, but just summarizing the thoughts I had about each phone when I had it and comparing that.  Which seems fairly accurate since my aural memory seems to be pretty good.  But who knows.
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Maxvla

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Re: Comparative Impressions between 3 different Audeze
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2012, 02:28:35 AM »

Biggest problem I had with the Pinnacle setup was that there was no center, completely void. Single person singing came from 10 and 2, nothing at all from center. I couldn't listen longer than a couple songs.


That can be easily solved if you are using computer audio. Just decrease the Stereo width setting to on whatever player you are using.
Well it was using a Meridian 808.3 player. Can't do adjustments on that I don't think.
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gurubhai

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Re: Comparative Impressions between 3 different Audeze
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2012, 08:06:27 PM »

@RDS : Have you ever tried listening the LCD2 completely open back (without the grilles & felt) ?

I listened to Marv's LCD-3 with no grill and didn't really hear any difference with or without.  Tried the same with the HE500 and didn't notice any difference.  I imagine your fancy damping makes a difference though  ;D   

The grill doesn't do much anyway.
My experience with listening to them without the felt was that they sounded a bit congested, but had much better soundstage & the the treble peak was almost cleared. All as expected apart from one thing - the bass decreased. I expected the bass to increase on removing the felt. ???
 Anyway, I didn't think they needed such a thick felt when they sounded only a little underdamped without it. So, I used the HP50 'paper' & rockwool as spring(& also to take care of cavity resonance)
Works pretty well IMO, the modded LCD-2 sound as good as my NAD & have a slightly bigger soundstage albiet with less sweet forward mids. ;)
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 10:37:21 AM by gurubhai »
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