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Author Topic: Inexpensive Gustard U12 USB->SPDIF/I2S Converter Impressions with Classe DAC-1  (Read 6907 times)

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Hands

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For anyone that has kept up with my thoughts on the Classe Audio DAC-1, you may remember me mentioning how I noticed a big difference putting a 15dB attenuator on my SPDIF cable using my JKSPDIF MK3. The attenuator is included with the unit with the thought that it helps reduce signal reflections, I believe it was. Hearing that difference made me very curious as to how other converters might impact the Classe DAC-1's sound.

I didn't want this to be a costly experiment, and I stumbled on the Gustard U12 unit while browsing eBay one day. On paper it looked like it might be decent. XMOS chip, and I was curious to try a converter that wasn't based on the M2Tech HiFace stuff like the JK. Supposedly utilizes an independent, linear power supply. I don't know enough to confirm if that's 100% true or not. 32/384 and DSD support. AES/XLR, coax, HDMI I2S, and optical output. You can get them for around $170 shipped, which I felt that was relatively cheap enough for the sake of experimentation and held little risk.

Now that I got it in, it seems well built and works without a hitch even from USB3.0 (though, I am using some modified drivers I found from a Head-Fi thread - not sure if that makes a difference with 3.0 compatibility).

I have no idea where the JK converter stands when compared to other devices. I've heard it's good, though how it's technicalities and other characteristics compare to other stuff, like the OR5, I can't say. All I can comment on is how it compares to the U12. I also tried using the U12 with AES/XLR (Mogami-based cable) and with coax (BJC-based cable), and if there were any audible differences, they were negligible relative to the differences between the two converters.

Sound Impressions/Comparison: It took me a while to initially pick out differences, as you'd expect them to be small in the grand scheme of things, but I found a small drum sample in a track that made differences fairly apparent. The JK unit sounded a bit more focused and a bit cleaner at the expense of sounding edgier than the U12. Snare drums in particular sounded almost too crispy and brittle from the JK, yet they did have a bit more pop to them. Everything on the JK just sounds a bit crisper, but almost in a way that can be too much at times. Depends on the track.

The U12 seemed to give every instrument and vocalist, or whatever fart noises you're listening to, a slightly bigger sense of internal body and presence, though it could make things a bit more crowded sounding. The JK may have been a bit airier and more expansive sounding, but that was harder to tell. I noticed vocals on the JK sounded a bit more two-dimensional and physically flat when compared to the U12. The U12 generally seemed a bit more intimate sounding.

The JK might have handled delicate details a bit better, or, rather, presented delicate details in a delicate manner, such as light tapping or brushing of cymbals. The U12 made things sound less delicate despite being more laid-back, not pushing things forward, and still generally keeping the same sense of detail or ability to pick things out. It's hard to explain. There were several moments where I felt details popped or came through better on the JK, sometimes too much so, but switching back to the U12 made me realize they were still there. It was all just generally less forward and more relaxed on the U12. Slightly less focused but not in a way that seemed to smear, cloud, or lose details compared to the JK.

I'm not actually sure which unit would be more technically accurate in most regards. The JK certainly has the edge on focus and excitement, though at times it sounded too edgy, sharp, or exciting. Like I said, it depended on the track. And, hey, maybe that's how the music should truly be. I'm hesitant to say the U12 has less technical capabilities, but it does seem more laid-back and comfortable with itself w ithout necessarily losing much or anything in the process. Just more of a different presentation with me leaning towards saying the JK is a bit more analytical and edgier and the U12 is a bit more musical and rounded without necessarily sacrificing detail.

I'd have to hear more converters to start ranking things or giving anything "good" or "bad" labels, so take this as it is...just a comparison of these two converters with the Classe Audio DAC-1. For my tastes and preferences, I think I like how the U12 pairs better with the Classe. But I might also be crazy and be hearing things wrong (U12 might be garbage), so don't take this all too seriously.

Even if the Gustard U12 turns out not to be super amazing compared to some of the best converters, it might be a good entry-level deal at under $200.

Couple links with details and pics. Just search for it if these stop working:
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-u12-32bit-384khz-xmos-usb-digital-audio-interface-2014-new.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/U10-XMOS-USB-digital-0-1PPM-crystal-independent-linear-power-supply-384K/514210_1859929284.html
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Marvey

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It's your Classe DAC-1. Supposedly it's drier and less warm than most other DACs. The Theta Gen V sounds high fidelity, but hardly dry, wooden, bright, etc.
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Hands

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Just want to make sure I understood, but I'm assuming you meant the JK probably sounds edgier or what have you than the U12 because that's more true to how the DAC-1 is? If so, very well could be. On the other hand, it's not like the U12 made the DAC-1 a whole lot easier for me to listen to long-term. I think I'm just not crazy for most oversampling methods (blame my ears). I'd have to try out more known-good converters to get a proper "ranking" in my head, but my main point was that this cheap-o U12 converter seems like a decent deal at its price for what you get and how it compares to the JK (which is, what, $250-350 or so?). I get the impression some of the converters in the $1K price range aren't too impressive, from what you and others have lead me to believe.
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firev1

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Interesting if differences between either could be showed. Some of these chinese devices use top quality parts for the money.
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Marvey

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But forget things like power supply.
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firev1

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Or crappy software, sometimes(or most) they must have this fatal flaw in their products.
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Hands

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A few things I wanted to point out or reiterate. I've tried the JK converter with and without that attenuator on other DACs, and none sounded much different except for the Classe DAC-1. Now, I'm not sure if this is specific to just some of the M2Tech/HiFace devices floating around or most/all of them, but I know some don't exactly match the SPDIF specification, I believe it was. Either messed up voltage and/or overshoot problems. I want to say I read somewhere that the MK3 JK units mitigate or resolve this entirely, but A) I can't confirm that's actually true and B) there are so many JK variants floating around that it's hard for me to verify with 100% certainty I actually have a MK3 unit (that's just what it was listed as when I bought it used). Either way, the attenuator made a big difference in the DAC-1's sound.

So, there's either some sort of weird interaction between the JK and Classe DAC-1, thus why it sounded bad without the attenuator and good with it, the DAC-1 is just super picky with converters, or the DAC-1 is just very revealing of gear in the audio chain. I'm leaning more towards the latter, but I don't really have the means to test or verify that. That's why I'd need to hear more converters to start ranking things as "good," "bad," right," and "wrong."

As for the power supply, it's true it could be no good. Sure, one of the selling points is the "independent, linear power supply," but, again, I'm not the right guy to verify that. It could be anywhere from crap to genuinely good for all I know. At the very least, I don't hear anything terribly wrong or off with the U12 in the chain, though I do want to see if there are any sort of measurable changes with it (I suspect there won't be much to see).

On a software/driver level, the U12 has so far worked without a hitch. I think it uses pretty common XMOS drivers. Quick, easy install. U12 has no issues resuming its duties after putting the computer to sleep or bringing it back up from shutdown/reboot. The JK, on the other hand, requires me to power it on and off after each boot, and usually after sleep. Otherwise it is not detected properly. It also has a tendency to blue screen my computer. So, yeah, there's that...Might be a Windows 8 thing, drivers I'm using, motherboard...who knows.
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AustinValentine

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Just wanted to pop in and say thanks Hans for the impressions. I'm on the market for a budget USB->SPDIF Converter and this might be a really nice option at this price point.

It's been about two months now: is this solution still working out for you?
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Yeah, still works quite well. I think it makes for a good stopgap purchase if you want something now (rather, after shipping) to save up for something TOTL down the road (i.e. OR5, maybe CI Audio Transient Mk2, etc.) or if you just want something basic but solid for a budget setup. Otherwise, if you can afford it and/or don't mind waiting and keeping this $150-175 for future savings, I say splurge for something nicer, if your gear warrants it.

So far, drivers have been rock solid, where as anything M2Tech/HiFace based is prone to either not working or causing BSODs on my Win8-based machines. I don't think you can expect the moon at this price, but it works well enough and isn't doing anything nefarious to the sound - nor is it performing any sort of miracles. I even did some quick measurements with it in AES mode (not posted) on the Classe DAC-1, and performance measured about the same as with the JKSPDIF Mk3. All that really says is that it's not majorly screwing things up, so take it FWIW.
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AustinValentine

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Thanks Hans! "Not majorly screwing things up" is more or less what I'm looking for.

I don't expect OR5 or Berkley Alpha level for sure. (If I were going into that price bracket, I'd just wait and buy a DAC with a solid USB implementation. An OR5 is about the price of a Yggy. Not sure if the Yggy *has* a good USB implementation, that will come out of future tests and reviews.) I'm just looking for something better than my rMBP's optical out to feed my Gamma2. The Toslink seems pretty poor...but the USB on the Gamma2 is pretty rough also.

Comparing it to the JKSPDIF Mk3 helps a lot, because I had that in my "mid-level" converter price bracket with Ciúnas Converter (pretty much the same thing I think or not! Nice differences there), Audiophilleo 2 (no PP upgrade), the Stello U3, and the Bel Canto MLink. If I can't find a reasonable price/performance USB->Coax solution, I'll probably just pick up a Wyrd, run the y2 off USB, and be done with it.

Thanks again for the input. Very much appreciated.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 05:08:42 PM by AustinValentine »
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