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Author Topic: Sansa Clip Sport  (Read 3698 times)

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Solderdude

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Sansa Clip Sport
« on: August 18, 2014, 05:46:37 PM »



The GUI is not the simplest to navigate but with properly tagged files (mine are) it works O.K.

As my 'higher quality' player I use a FiiO X3 (yes I know... isn't pirates booty but good enough for me) and always found the sonic differences (when not playing very loud) were small compared to the Sansa Fuze.



On direct comparison (same song, about the same volume) when plugging a headphone between them I noticed the clip sounded noticeably different from the X3.
The cymbals etc. lacked definition and presence and the sound was less refined.
Having read some reviews stating it has lesser sonic qualities than the clip I was curious how it measured.
The players are NOT loaded with a low resistance as I always use these players with my portable amp.
Will measure them under load as well one of these days.

left plots/data = Sansa Clip Sport <  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  >   Right plots/data = FiiO X3



Hmmm.  no roll-off in the frequency range... in fact the Sansa Clip is even slightly flatter.

What do the generated specs have to say.



Ah ... The FiiO X3 seems to be the better player after all (not surprisingly).

THD looks different.



What's most interesting in these plots is the base near the noise floor which widens in the Sansa. It may be an RMMA artefact or something that shows something is up.
Also the Sansa seems to generate more harmonics and slightly higher in amplitude.
SOME of the higher frequency spikes MAY not even be present but could also be caused by the used SB1240 soundcard

Needless top say this player sounds quite good, certainly suited for usage while exercising or non critical listening and less than the older Sansa Fuze (which is technically identical to the Clip).
Wouldn't recommend the Clip Sport for hifi enjoyment although it does sound quite good for the price (around $ 60.-)
Oh... for those that like to know the output resistance .. I measured the output R and it's 0.7 Ohm. (Exactly the same as the Fuze)
The X3 measured 0.2 Ohm by the way.
For all 3 players... no clipping even when loaded with 30 Ohm.

Full RMAA reports of http://www.mediafire.com/view/108kbakq8fgih2b/RightMark_Audio_Analyzer_test_clip_sport.pdf and http://www.mediafire.com/view/ed3735p7i30tutj/RightMark_Audio_Analyzer_test_FiiO_X3_16-48.pdf
Sansa Clip Sport versus the, a few years older, Sansa Fuze.



First lets compare the generated RMAA data, Left = Clip Sport, Right = Fuze



The Clip Sport measures better than the Fuze .... in numbers

What does the FR look like ?



The Sport is slightly 'flatter' and is filtered steeper after 20kHz.
The Fuze shows a slight 'lift' in FR between 10kHz and 20kHz... < +0.1dB where the Sport is very flat and the X3 shows a slight decrease there.
Again +0.1dB is inaudible (at least it is to me and most others).
For those that noticed all 3 players show the exact same amount of gentle roll-off in the lows.... this is caused by the soundcard used for these tests (SB1240) and it is very safe to say all 3 players are completely flat from 20Hz upwards.

Now the Harmonic distortion plots...



Something interesting to notice.
A: The Fuze has higher 2nd harmonics, the Sport higher 3rd harmonics. The harmonics spread and higher harmonics is better in the Fuze. The Fuze spectrum is 'nicer' to the ears but also very low in level (below what most consider inaudible)
B: The 'spread' at the base is better in the Fuze and more similar to the X3 albeit much higher in levels. This MAY be an RMAA thing though.
SOME of the higher frequency spikes MAY not even be present but could also be caused by the used SB1240 soundcard and is difficult to say for sure.

Sound comparison Fuze vs X3:

As I noticed earlier the Sport doesn't sound as 'realistic' in the treble as the X3.
I own the Fuze for much longer and was always impressed by its sound quality.
I had compared it before to the X3 and said they sounded very similar to me.
Having performed the listening test with the Sport vs the X3 I made the same 'recording' from the Fuze and compared these 3.
The Sport was again easy to pick as the 'tambourine bells' in the test file gave the Sport away each and every time reliably in a blind AB test.
Going from the specs one would think that SQ of the Sport would be better than the Fuze.
Well... it isn't.
Perhaps the most important give away is the broad base in the THD plot of the Sport which isn't seen in both other players.
In fact I wasn't able to tell the Fuze apart from the X3.
I had noticed this before though.
The X3, however, has a bigger display, is capable of more formats/sampling rates, has SPDIF out, can be used as a DAC and can play a LOT louder and effortlessly drive 600 Ohm headphones.
Sonically (at the same undistorted SPL) they are impossible to tell apart.

Does this mean the SQ from the X3 is mediocre ? Is the Fuze simply that good ?
Well.. the differences start to show at higher impedances and on higher levels where the Fuze runs out of voltage while the X3 goes on and on and sounding lovely.
At lower levels both players simply reached the 'border' of my hearing capabilities and are equally 'transparent'.
When used with a portable amp even the max SPL problem is solved.

For completeness the RMAA results of the http://www.mediafire.com/view/g8639qn5v1996y1/RightMark_Audio_Analyzer_test_Sansa_Fuze_16-48.pdf

verdict Sansa Clip Sport:
Nice player but the SQ is slightly less than its worse measuring, but better sounding, predecessors (Fuze and Clip).

Post info:

I just changed the firmware version (from 1.09 to 1.17) and the measurements are slightly better (in the IMD products) and though hard to hear would swear the SQ is improved somewhat and hear less differences now compared to the Fuze/X3.
Also possible I can't hear it probably being a bit tired.

You cannot put more than 2000 songs on the uSD card unless you use a program and a tutorial on the Sandisk website (original FW has 4000 songs limit).
As said there seems to be a workaround.
It does play WAV and FLAC as well so a larger capacity card could be filled with higher SQ songs ?
The card's contents will have to be browsed through the internal browser and are NOT integrated in the 'music database' it creates on its internal memory.
I figure they opted for this as they got a lot of 'heat' from people inserting large cards with non-tagged files and it took ages for those older players to update the memory.
Haven't checked but think 48kHz is the max sample frequency so no 96 and 192kHz files (need the X3 for those).
Even though the X3 can play 192/24 it does downsample to 96/24 and does the same on its SPDIF out.



« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 05:29:25 AM by Solderdude »
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Deep Funk

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Re: Sansa Clip Sport
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2014, 07:56:04 PM »

I always have the Fuze V1 in my back pack. RockBox did not want to install but for general purpose, non-critical listening the Fuze V1 is more than acceptable. A bit of Equalising in the standard interface improved the sound a bit.

As long as the small Sansas keep their acceptable sound quality, functional interface and SD-card slot they are good enough for FLAC on the go. Thanks for the update  ahoy
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Eric_C

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Re: Sansa Clip Sport
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2014, 11:42:33 PM »

It's possible to use a 64GB card (I know, I've tried) but the file limit--as in, the number of songs you can put into the player, plus the segregation between on-board memory and SD memory, just kills the benefits of using a higher capacity SD card.
IIRC the 2000 file limit came with the firmware update. If you don't update, however, you will not have the ability to lock the player while in playback mode.
Also, no Rockbox. Sport is apparently built on different hardware/firmware/somewhere than the previous iterations of the Clip, and so the Rockbox developers consider themselves unlikely to be getting Rockbox out for the Sport any time soon; it requires them learning completely new architecture.

In sum: it's probably a great player stock, but for folks on forums like this, we'd be better served going for an older Clip+.
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firev1

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Re: Sansa Clip Sport
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2014, 02:55:23 AM »

I might be wrong solderdude but I feel that the spectral widening is caused by Jitter, it will show up using ARTA or other spectrum analysers with high sidelobe windowing(high order Blackman-Harris or Kaiser 7 windows). The wider the spread, the higher the low frequency jitter. The SB1240 is capable of resolving that low frequency jitter, I think more so then the EMU0404.

Too bad about Sansa's latest forray into the players, they seem to be going backwards with the latest Clip Zips and later gen products. I'm actually hoping for a decent player in the X1 especially if cheap and better firmware. The X3's firmware is a problem for me.
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Solderdude

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Re: Sansa Clip Sport
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2014, 05:24:18 AM »

I tried a 16GB card but the fact tags aren't read from that card (integrate it as the Fuze and X3 does) and you have to navigate the card using the 'browser' makes it impractical to me.
The fact that the SQ isn't on par with the Fuze is another thing that bugs me.
Too bad Sansa goes for the quick money instead of audio quality.
I figure they opted for this as they got a lot of 'heat' from people inserting large cards with non-tagged files and it took ages for those older players to update the memory. Even when the files are tagged properly a 32GB card takes a lot of time updating the library and during this time you can't do anything with the player.

pros are lightweight and 24hrs of playing time... but that's about it.

Jitter had first crossed my mind the moment I saw the results, but would they really use a X'tal that jitters that much that it is visible in the 1kHz tone ?
Perhaps they skimped and use a cheap ceramic resonator instead of a decent X'tal ?
Might also explain how the sound differs and is a bit coarser/less 'realistic'.
I plan to do some more tests.

The fact that I could tell the Sport and X3 apart with 100% accuracy in a blind test tells me (objectivist that I am) that they differ considerably.
The only 'giveaway' in the measurements (so far, RMAA doesn't say it all) is the broadening of that bass.
Agreed on the X3's GUI, aside from that I have no real problems with the player.
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firev1

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Re: Sansa Clip Sport
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2014, 06:07:54 AM »

A couple of extreme examples of jitter and how it translates to THD test. The levels are kinda off(by 1.5 to 1.7 dbFS) but it gets the job done in visualising. Needs a lot of averaging, large FFT sample sizes and good windows to visualise it. Graphs from Ibasso DX90 and Audio GD NFB2.
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Re: Sansa Clip Sport
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2014, 06:24:59 AM »

Wow, that's the DX90?!  Holy mother...good ole iBasso.
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Solderdude

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Re: Sansa Clip Sport
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2014, 09:04:50 AM »

A couple of extreme examples of jitter and how it translates to THD test. The levels are kinda off(by 1.5 to 1.7 dbFS) but it gets the job done in visualising. Needs a lot of averaging, large FFT sample sizes and good windows to visualise it. Graphs from Ibasso DX90 and Audio GD NFB2.

Thanks for the relating pics.
Given that my SB1240 (on 16 bits) doesn't go below the -120dB noise floor it would look like the Sport has about the same amount of jitter as the DX90.
A spreading of the base points towards low frequency jitter (somewhat comparable to wow and flutter).
Fact remains the Sport sounds different from the other two and the only measurable differences that seem to matter (in RMAA) appear to be the jitter.
The reports of the DX90 'sound' seem to bare a resemblance to my findings with the Sport.
This makes the Fuze and X3 a better sounding player than DX90 in this aspect.
I guess I am spoiled with my players.

I have found some other things that set the Sport aside from the Fuze and X3 in some squarewave measurements.

The frequency range of the Fuze and Sport go all the way down to DC (0Hz) while the X3 clearly has caps in it's path. The line-out of the X3 goes MUCH MUCH lower than the headphone out by the way.


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firev1

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Re: Sansa Clip Sport
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2014, 10:33:41 AM »

Wow, that's the DX90?!  Holy mother...good ole iBasso.

I bet it would sound better if they could keep it low but ESS9018 on portable devices? Nah.... Hyperstream didn't work for them too well.

On capless outputs, I suspect you might see something cool in -90.31dbFS 16 bit 1khz sine test when you look at the spectrum. Something like fluctuating dc offset I doubt these would have DC servos lol.

Edit: I think the dynamic range test may reveal some of that jitter as well. Symmetrical bands of the 1khz tone. Just a speculation this time.
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numbercube

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Re: Sansa Clip Sport
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2014, 03:03:37 PM »

Awesome Fuze measurements! Thank you very much. THD looks like a tubeamp.
Would love to see some 300 to 600 ohm load measurements.
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