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Author Topic: Interesting link on burn-in  (Read 2325 times)

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Original_Ken

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Interesting link on burn-in
« on: February 06, 2014, 08:00:06 PM »

Since I own shoes that fit differently than when they were new, speaker and headphone burn-in was never controversial for me.  A material subject to movement and heat changes.   If you don't think that, I'll be happy to trade you a 200,000 mile engine for your brand-new one.  ;)

But, somehow "burn-in is unscientific voodoo" has become another part of the Objectivist creed, so here is a link from a speaker manufacturer who did some measurements (skip to the end if you just want the conclusion):

http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm

and also check out:

http://www.gr-research.com/myths.htm
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Skyline

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Re: Interesting link on burn-in
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2014, 08:27:40 PM »

I don't think the question, at least for me, has ever been whether or not there is some change that occurs.

The real question is how much of that change is actually audible.  I know that for myself it takes me a while to get accustomed to the sound of new headphones and the way I hear them changes over a period of time.  How much of that is mental adjustment and how much of that is due to actual physical change in the headphones, I have no idea...
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Original_Ken

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Re: Interesting link on burn-in
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2014, 08:32:26 PM »

The one time when I heard the most change due to burn-in was when I put the headphones and a music player in the closet for several days.   So, no possibility of "brain burn-in"...
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shipsupt

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Re: Interesting link on burn-in
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2014, 08:34:39 PM »

So, it's clear what parts wear in engines and sneakers, and why.  So that we can make the connection with headphones... which parts of your headphones are wearing, and how?

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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Original_Ken

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Re: Interesting link on burn-in
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2014, 08:37:08 PM »

So, it's clear what parts wear in engines and sneakers, and why.  So that we can make the connection with headphones... which parts of your headphones are wearing, and how?
That's discussed in both the links.

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shipsupt

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Re: Interesting link on burn-in
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2014, 08:39:19 PM »

Ah, sorry, I get confused at when we're going to discuss things and when we're going to post links.  I'm still new with this inter web thing.  My bad...
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Anaxilus

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Re: Interesting link on burn-in
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2014, 09:02:37 PM »

Mechanical wear is so obvious when discussing things like the modulus of change in elasticity, it's amazing to me such things are even questioned.  A lot of real effects are simply criticized because of who or the way they are presented often by nutjobs.  The degree to which anything is or can be observed depends on many many factors.  I've heard phones and speakers with no audible change, positive change and worse change.  Just depends on things like construction and design.

Where I will go out on the line with subjective experience is capacitor burn-in and wear.  This is much more difficult to study as it's both a chemical and mechanical effect with often more nuanced effects.  People will argue that caps of the same values will sound the same regardless of construction but they have obviously very little experience.  It's very easy to find two caps with the same voltage and capacitance ratings that sound night and day from each other.  So dealing with those folks as chemistry stabilizes or a cap dries or wears out without sufficient interwebz data is like pulling teeth.
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OJneg

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Re: Interesting link on burn-in
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2014, 09:12:18 PM »

I don't doubt that loudspeakers (large woofers specifically) can undergo burn-in. But where is the data that points to headphones undergoing such drastic behavior?
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Anaxilus

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Re: Interesting link on burn-in
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2014, 09:27:30 PM »

I don't doubt that loudspeakers (large woofers specifically) can undergo burn-in. But where is the data that points to headphones undergoing such drastic behavior?

Are you suggesting they can't because they are mechanically the same as a woofer but just smaller?  What quantum physics are you citing that mechanical and chemical change no longer occur once they reach a certain size?

The better question I think is in regards to the degree of audibility and audio measurements.  It's a better case to say that mechanical change in headphones is less obvious or inaudible due to the smaller drivers having less mass and smaller excursion, thus the range within which audible change can be perceived from potential wear is much smaller.
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shipsupt

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Re: Interesting link on burn-in
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2014, 09:30:42 PM »

Mechanical wear is so obvious when discussing things like the modulus of change in elasticity, it's amazing to me such things are even questioned. 

Just depends on things like construction and design.

Yep, and the engineers designing this stuff know about it too. The good ones are going to pick materials appropriately to keep changes to minimum, or at best to an expected calculated quantity.

Using engine wear as a valid comparison just doesn't work for me.  The mechanical wear and failure modes in engine parts are simply not that comparable to the changes that occur when a speaker is exercised.
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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