right, cool. hmm so you tried it with the W4 I assume you're saying, and that it perhaps altered the FR a bit too much?
don't really know whether this IEM is possible to save though, as it just had a bit too much mid-bass for me though.
but was it better with 150Ohm over no added impedance?

thanks!

right, cool. hmm so you tried it with the W4 I assume you're saying, and that it perhaps altered the FR a bit too much?
don't really know whether this IEM is possible to save though, as it just had a bit too much mid-bass for me though.
but was it better with 150Ohm over no added impedance?

thanks!

No, I just own the adapter. I never tried the W4 with it unfortunately.

Hi, first post here. Handle on H-F is twinqy.

Anyways, just wanted to chime in quickly here unless my spotty wifi cuts me off. I wouldn't know of any other instances of the OP trying out the W4s, but the one time I've personally seen him try mine out, the volume adapter included with the Westones was connected.

If I'm not mistaken - and I very well could be as I have no means of measuring the output, nor do I remember what came with my TF10 or my UE600 - the adapter is very similar, if not the same, as the UE volume adapter. i.e. a impedance adapter in disguise rated at 100 ohms at it's maximum (and I have a piece of tape covering it to keep it at said maximum). It certainly goes beyond what my 75ohm one can do. I can't post a fancy graph to confirm that statement. I do have Google Spreadsheets on another page if you want me to churn something out real quick.

So I can confirm that he did technically try it with additional resistance once. I don't remember a particularly positive response from him either. The words "shit" and "cuntsucker" does pop into memory. It's great to be able to swear here.

And my own 2c - It's a pretty benign sounding thing. I'm typically a pretty boring person. It evens out. To be quite honest I don't have time to care about what I listen to on a daily basis. As long as I can get my Miley Cyrus tunes plugged in during the commute, and the awful-musical-turd Radiohead plugged out, I'm good.

I might be sending them to someone for a reshell/retune - if the guy responds. I've kept them so long just for a reshell, and I should probably stick to my guns despite how tempting it all might seem otherwise. And it's tempting. No one should be subjugated to the W4 - now-properly-rechristened as Total Musical Turd MK2 - for extended periods. Not in a country where torture is illegal at least.

Well I don't think the W4 is 'bad' so much as expensive for what you get.  I've certainly heard worse for considerably more money.  For me it did present the widest SS I've ever heard which some people would like.  It was too semi-circle for me personally with L/R too far forward.

sums it up for me as well I think. I hear people say RE-600 is boring and I love it, so dunno!
I am not much for soundstage width so I didn't pay that much attention to it.

Warning: long rant ahead. 

I'm interested in the "no sidegrades in high fidelity" with the caveat that no earphones or headphones fall into that category for you, AS. Over in low fidelity land, the law of diminishing returns seems to push products to an asymptotic sidegrade of sorts. Is that not true among million dollar speaker systems as well?

See, there's usually something that measures better or as good in all ways - it is typical that it actually sounds better or as good too. That's what I found. However, some measurements are more important than others - FR is easily fixed. Ringing much harder to fix (advanced inverse convolution is necessary or superior damping) and harmonic distortion is nearly impossible to fix unless caused by lack of seal or simple misdesign of the shell. Or perhaps too loose membrane in orthodynamics.
Similarly in amps, with the addition of the most important overshoot and convergence time  (sorry, I don't know how that's called in English actually) w/ capacitive load and IMD (both kinds). Both in small and large signal. (Still not measured by enough people and thus the whole mess about amplifiers.)
Ye olde "square wave response", which is quite useless in presence of frequency response nonlinearity (for headphones/IEMs) - but is highly useful for electrically precise things like amplifiers.

Quote from: M3NTAL on September 03, 2013, 02:30:13 AM

I'd be curious to hear a top dynamic IEM, but don't know where to look.

The IE-800 is quite different than the IE8. <snip> I wish I could email Axel Grell at Sennheiser and ask him about it. I'd also like  a unicorn while I'm at it...

Yes, Sennheiser IE800 is a very good IEM if a bit expensive, fit issues and slight top end ringing aside (it's *huge* and stubby), but still not as good as RE-400 (darn cheap and great)/RE-600 (darn overpriced because RE-400 is better) siblings or RE-272 (maybe outdated, RE-400 is slightly better, esp. in FR, if you can stand deep fit).
Oh, and RE-400 is also best worn over the ear - otherwise it is nearly impossible to achieve required deep enough fit due to the strain relief on the cable - at least for me.

The real problem is that it's only good and at the price point, it should be the be all end all. I've hit *inverse* returns with price hard with that SE-5 and earlier Etymotic ER-4P + adapter + custom tips. And again with Brainwavz B2. And again... I was too curious about the next best thing - but now I have better contact with a few shops and they're all too willing to let me try their stuff out.
(Such as Westone UM3X demo. Distorted bass monster, that's what it is.)

About Sony MDR-EX1000 (assuming this is the model you're talking about) - it has a terrible 6-7k ringing issue which makes VSonic GR07 hotness with teensy ringing appear trivial. I'm talking ear piercing levels. It's not a double or triple penetrator at least, but that doesn't make it good.

Have a list of g reat dynamic driver IEMs to check, in order of price (NOT quality): Sony MH1 (not MH1C), VSonic VC02, Hifiman RE-0, Hifiman RE-400, Hifiman RE-ZERO, VSonic GR06, VSonic GR07, Hifiman RE-262, Hifiman RE-272, Sennheiser IE800.
In terms of subjective quality, I'd order it like: RE-400, RE-272, GR07, RE-262, IE800, MH1, VC02, RE-0 =~ RE-ZERO, GR06; Brainwavz B2 (== any TWFK, they sound very alike) comes after IE800, behind MH1. (nicer FR with best fit, much worse distortion and extension) UERM comes tied to GR07, but again, different signature and tradeoffs. (GR07 V-shape with slightly plasticky timbre + hotness; UERM general so-so distortion, sticking out in an otherwise good IEM; general brightness)

Sony MDR-EX1000 doesn't make the list due to its fatal flaw. Neither does RE-600, since it's a devolution of RE-400. (only a step behind RE-272 - large lack of air fixable with EQ) No, I haven't listed all dynamic IEMs I've heard over the years. Heck, maybe LG Quadbeats could make the list, but I didn't have any comparison IEM at that listen.
Most BA IEMs don't make the list either. ER-4S being just on par with RE-0/RE-ZERO. Westone 4 is way off. SE-5 is only generally bit better than Brainwavz B2 due to its high midrange distortion combined with FR cut despite 4 drivers - but it is way better with bass - only RE-400 and IE800 are notably better. (RE-262/272 are more refined, but lose on correct volume - need EQ.)

I'd have a hard time to put together such a headphone list, because all headphones do one or more things wrong. Yes, even Sennheiser HD800. (that fixable Face tweeteR effect, subbass handling is good but not the best) Even Audeze LCD-3. (fixable upper mids cut, slowish highs) Even Stax Lambda Pro driven by a non-stock amp. (friend of a friend's gear - it fails utterly at subbass despite great seal; also finicky to place on head) Or Hifiman HE-6. (minor distortion giving smoothness combined with funny fixable upper mids boost giving etch)
So there I'm unable to pick a dominator like in IEMs.

IEM vs headphone standoff is... interesting. If you ignore RE-400, it's on par. But this IEM with very deep fit (for soundstaging) takes the absolute top. It beats headphones at soundstaging and unlike some deep fitted BAs which can come close on this point, doesn't suffer from distortion or ringing.

Every shallow fit IEM has that wrong soundstage to my ears. Even SE-5 had it depending on how deep I crammed them, suggesting very slightly too shallow impression. Sleek Audio SA6 was possible to insert this deep, but it was inferior to most everything new. Ety ER-4P/S had it as well, but its mids boost ruined the soundstage.