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Author Topic: HiFiMAN HE-500 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots  (Read 26711 times)

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jerg

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Re: HiFiMAN HE-500 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2012, 03:31:37 PM »
The more important thing with using non-manufacturer pads is how they attenuate the sound. What changes in your HE500 sound with the pad switch? I'd have to imagine Hifiman designed their pads to tailor to the properties of the drivers, so using different pads are always a gamble in that regard.
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Anathallo

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Re: HiFiMAN HE-500 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2012, 08:51:20 PM »
For me the highs on the 5LE were a bit too much - I found the 840 Pads tamed it a tough.  Listening with the velours now, and they do sound nice on well recorded music.  The 840 pads may make the bass a little too overpowering for some.

Here is a picture with the 840 pads on HE-500s (as the 5LEs were on my head).

http://i.imgur.com/jwiKR.jpg
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ultrabike

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Re: HiFiMAN HE-500 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2012, 08:14:49 AM »
A generous friend of mine loaned me his HE500. Since I have spend considerable time between these and my HD558, I would like to share my relative impressions. I used a variety of pop, classic, rock, latin... all sorts of music, and a loaned UHA-6S. A special thanks goes to my friend.

Relative to the HD558, the HE500 sounds more laid back, but with more air. To me, the HE500 offers a dramatic improvement in the bass and midrange, and is much cleaner sounding. It is also more forgiving of sibilant recordings. The bass is very deep. Definition of percussions is also much superior on the HE500. Compared to the HE500, the HD558 can sound "synthetic" and a little bit distorted.

That said, there is one particular flaw with the HE500 to my ears: It can sound "hollow" for a lack of a better term. I played around with an equalizer and introduced a smooth notch around 5kHz and listened through my HD558. I think I was able to sort of reproduce this "hollow" effect. It is somewhat harmless IMO, but I think I can hear it.

Overall, I think the HE500 is a great headphone, a step up in terms of bass/midrange quality, depth, cleaness, and air.
 :ship:
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jerg

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Re: HiFiMAN HE-500 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2012, 10:06:02 PM »
Quote from: ultrabike on October 08, 2012, 08:14:49 AM
A generous friend of mine loaned me his HE500. Since I have spend considerable time between these and my HD558, I would like to share my relative impressions. I used a variety of pop, classic, rock, latin... all sorts of music, and a loaned UHA-6S. A special thanks goes to my friend.

Relative to the HD558, the HE500 sounds more laid back, but with more air. To me, the HE500 offers a dramatic improvement in the bass and midrange, and is much cleaner sounding. It is also more forgiving of sibilant recordings. The bass is very deep. Definition of percussions is also much superior on the HE500. Compared to the HE500, the HD558 can sound "synthetic" and a little bit distorted.

That said, there is one particular flaw with the HE500 to my ears: It can sound "hollow" for a lack of a better term. I played around with an equalizer and introduced a smooth notch around 5kHz and listened through my HD558. I think I was able to sort of reproduce this "hollow" effect. It is somewhat harmless IMO, but I think I can hear it.

Overall, I think the HE500 is a great headphone, a step up in terms of bass/midrange quality, depth, cleaness, and air.
 :ship:

Sounds exactly like the measurements. That is indeed quite a big chunk of missing information, wedged between the mids and the mid-treble.
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ultrabike

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Re: HiFiMAN HE-500 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2012, 07:18:33 AM »
Another observation is that to my ears, the HE500 is clearly superior to the HD558 in terms of soundstage. My favorite tests for this are movies (Star Wars for example.) Believe it or not, the KSC-75 is also very good for movies (soundstage), but the HE500 is way ahead of the curve.

The first thing I though was leakage. The HE500 leaks much more than either the HD558 or the KSC-75, probably due to the driver size and type. But sound crossfeeding through the cups due to leakage seems far fetched to me... I would think this would be minimal.

I also thought about air, but while the KSC-75 has tremble, it has very little air and manages soundstage...

Another possible explanation could be FR phase, which I understand affects soundstage quite a bit. If the phase is well behaved then my best guess is that CSD plots will be well behaved and clean. The HE500 CSD plots seem very clean relative to the HD558 and KSC-75, and this may be an indication of well behaved phase which in turn may render superior soundstage.

Whatever the reason, the HE500 soundstage is just phenomenal IMO.

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omegakitty

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Re: HiFiMAN HE-500 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2012, 12:35:12 AM »
Quote from: jerg on October 08, 2012, 10:06:02 PM
Quote from: ultrabike on October 08, 2012, 08:14:49 AM
A generous friend of mine loaned me his HE500. Since I have spend considerable time between these and my HD558, I would like to share my relative impressions. I used a variety of pop, classic, rock, latin... all sorts of music, and a loaned UHA-6S. A special thanks goes to my friend.

Relative to the HD558, the HE500 sounds more laid back, but with more air. To me, the HE500 offers a dramatic improvement in the bass and midrange, and is much cleaner sounding. It is also more forgiving of sibilant recordings. The bass is very deep. Definition of percussions is also much superior on the HE500. Compared to the HE500, the HD558 can sound "synthetic" and a little bit distorted.

That said, there is one particular flaw with the HE500 to my ears: It can sound "hollow" for a lack of a better term. I played around with an equalizer and introduced a smooth notch around 5kHz and listened through my HD558. I think I was able to sort of reproduce this "hollow" effect. It is somewhat harmless IMO, but I think I can hear it.

Overall, I think the HE500 is a great headphone, a step up in terms of bass/midrange quality, depth, cleaness, and air.
 :ship:

Sounds exactly like the measurements. That is indeed quite a big chunk of missing information, wedged between the mids and the mid-treble.

It's not as drastic on the measurements Tyll has done. Given the humungous nulls seen on the SR-Omega graph (which I couldn't hear) I do think it's an artifact like purrin says.

I actually prefer the way my HD580 soundstages in some recordings over the HE500. The 500 can be just a tad too artificially wide left to right on some recordings which I know don't have that much separation.
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ultrabike

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Re: HiFiMAN HE-500 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2012, 01:53:40 AM »
In Tyll's plots the HE500 seems very similar to the HD598 (somewhat similar signature to the HD558 in Marv's plots) from 1kHz and up after compensation. I can't say that is what I heard. To me, my HD558 sounds more forward, and the HE500 definitively darker but with more air to it. Maybe there is production variation...

As far as the "hollow" effect, I could also describe it as very slight reverberation with some songs. I had to have my HD558 on for some time to be able to detect it. I would very quickly adjust to it... Maybe I'm used to faulty cans, or maybe my ears have gone south :)p17

The soundstage was definitively bigger in the HE500.

*Edit: Reverberation may be an inaccurate term because that may imply ringing which I did not experience with the HE500... Other than a slight "hollow" effect, I don't know how to best describe it.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 05:20:02 AM by ultrabike »
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Kotomirage

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Re: HiFiMAN HE-500 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2012, 01:57:55 AM »
ultrabike, were you listening using velour or pleather pads?

I have found the pleather pads cause, what I can only describe as, a slight 'tubey' sound (not related to headphone amps, but rather that the sound appears to be coming out of a tube I suppose). I feel the velour pads make the headphones brighter and also get rid of that slight tubey/hollow sound.

Personally, it's not big enough of a difference to warrant the change, and the pleather pads are way more comfortable than the velours (they have a bigger hole for the ears to rest in and are so much softer!). Also, on the contrary to what most people are saying, I find that the soundstage doesn't really change at all, and in fact seems to be more coherent (at times, the soundstage using the velour pads was a little boxy/angular, some instruments seemed isolated from the rest of the music).

That's my opinion anyway! Some things in audio are just so difficult to describe  ;D
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ultrabike

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Re: HiFiMAN HE-500 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2012, 06:00:03 AM »
Yes, they were pleather pads! My impressions sort of corresponds to yours! A subtle "tubey/hollow" could be another way to describe it. Like you said, it is very minor. I perceived when going back and forth with my HD558. I agree that the pads are super comfy. I love these headphones :)

BTW, I suggest to drop a word or two about yourself here: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,302.0.html and Welcome! ahoy
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jerg

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Re: HiFiMAN HE-500 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2012, 04:20:35 PM »
Quote from: ultrabike on October 11, 2012, 01:53:40 AM
In Tyll's plots the HE500 seems very similar to the HD598 (somewhat similar signature to the HD558 in Marv's plots) from 1kHz and up after compensation. I can't say that is what I heard. To me, my HD558 sounds more forward, and the HE500 definitively darker but with more air to it. Maybe there is production variation...

As far as the "hollow" effect, I could also describe it as very slight reverberation with some songs. I had to have my HD558 on for some time to be able to detect it. I would very quickly adjust to it... Maybe I'm used to faulty cans, or maybe my ears have gone south :)p17

The soundstage was definitively bigger in the HE500.

*Edit: Reverberation may be an inaccurate term because that may imply ringing which I did not experience with the HE500... Other than a slight "hollow" effect, I don't know how to best describe it.

One possible solution to this reverb effect could be to just remove the grills, they have a big (and negative) impact on the sound. Seriously, my guess is all Hifiman cans will sound substantially better with less obstructive grills, as it is already the clear case with HE400.

The stock grills introduce a lot of extra noise and distortion on the sound, kills the otherwise potentially great imaging/soundstage capacities, and muffles the sound to a noticeable degree. With the new grills I use on my Hifiman's it propels them to a new level of clarity, with zero changes on the voicing of course.

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