Topic: Spending more on an amp then headphones (Read 6514 times)

Deep Funk · « **Reply #50 on:** September 23, 2015, 03:39:40 PM »

Quote from: Koloth on September 23, 2015, 02:39:56 PM

Got it

Also I didnt wanna come across like an obnoxious ass claiming that 159$ isnt a lot of money. But I feel less angry at a hypetrain for an admittedly great headphone at this price (even if it's just a sidegrade to whatever you currently have) than I do about some FotM HF Hypetrain costing many times more that.

Enlighten your existence with a KSC-75.

When they ask you "What means to happiness have you found?" you can say "It is a Koss, a KSC-75 of humble origins." They look at you and wonder. You continue "It costs less than a M50 and has a better midrange" and you give them a listen. Then they fall on their knees and cry "Oh divine creature from the heavens! Why did we not know better?"

Then you conclude "Oh lost souls now found, consult the digital spirit Google and it will guide you to this humble miracle of affordable good sound. You shall rejoice and find solace in the world of price tags without promise."

Now what remains is to write a Gospel to guide the Hype-Fi sheeple.

P.S. I survived 15 years of church. You can write a Gospel about anything after enough Sundays.

Luckbad · « **Reply #51 on:** September 23, 2015, 04:30:50 PM »

Koloth: I am the target market of audiophile-bassheads that companies go after.

There are TONS of options. I'm not sure why you limited your thinking to open circumaural; that's not where the bass is it. Open headphones simply cannot reproduce bass impact to basshead levels. You need closed, semi-closed, or in-ear to feel bass.

Sennheiser has their Momentum, Urbanite, DJ, IEM, and 630 VB.

JVC has about 20 different headphones targeted at us. Coincidentally, the #1 headphone for bass (ignoring sound signature) is the JVC SZ2000, which is marketed toward people who love Live Sound, and not any of their headphones with an X in the name (because bassheads must like that letter, especially followed by B).

Sony has an XB line for bass.

Denon nuked the awesome Foster headphones in favor of more stylish/less awesome headphones targeted at basshead-audiophiles.

Audio-Technia has their Solid Bass and DJ lines.

Fostex has the TH600 and TH900 (probably the truest expression of basshead-audiophilia).

Ultrasone has their DJs and Sig Pros.

V-Moda is a brand built around the idea that they make better-than-Beats (they do).

Even Yamaha has a basshead offering.

Pioneer has several offerings, including IEMs that have a bass exciter that actually shake the earphone.

Beyerdynamic has bass ports you can tune up (which unfortunately sacrifice all fidelity if you do so--I hate those things).

I could go on, but I think I've made my point. Many manufacturers are trying to capitalize on people like me. People who love bass but also love faithful musical production other than the skull-crushing bass. They just aren't doing it with open circumaural headphones because open headphones suck at bass. All of them. They can't produce the back pressure necessary to make my ears literally shake.

I'm a little old to have gotten my start with Beats, but I would have been onboard with them if I were a few years younger. Instead, I had mostly Sennheisers for years until companies started to manufacture real basshead-audiophile options.

The only thing that I find tragic from my perspective is the perception that the proper basshead tuning is the V shape. The Fostex TH600/TH900 are perfectly tuned EXCEPT for a couple of treble peaks that cause me fatigue. The JVC HP-DX1000 is almost perfectly tuned full stop. All Audio-Technica basshead cans go too far to treble. Any many manufacturers sacrifice overall fidelity for the sake of bass, which I can't handle anymore.

Anyway, there are many basshead headphones that exist in the higher price segment because of Beats. Thanks to them for that, because now I have options other than a subwoofer that I can no longer use because I have a kid.

bixby · « **Reply #52 on:** September 23, 2015, 04:45:40 PM »

Quote from: Luckbad on September 23, 2015, 04:30:50 PM

There are TONS of options. I'm not sure why you limited your thinking to open circumaural; that's not where the bass is it. Open headphones simply cannot reproduce bass impact to basshead levels. You need closed, semi-closed, or in-ear to feel bass.

I am in general agreement with this logic. Not so much that the cans need to be overly bassy, but that manufacturers did jump on Beats coattails with lots of option the budding audiophile have embraced. Hell, I bought Amperiors, Momentums, and HP-50s. Not that these were trying to copy Beats per se, but they were going after an audiophile market that might have been a bit more educated about sound than the Beats buyer.

And as far as a black hole in closed cans at $300, I'm quite happy with my Mad Dogs (eq'd), not perfect but what is?

Thad E Ginathom · « **Reply #53 on:** September 23, 2015, 04:55:19 PM »

Quote from: Koloth on September 23, 2015, 01:25:48 PM

The problem starts when you have an HD600/650 and start lusting after a PM1 because of some HF hypetrain:

In fact, that is probably where it all started for me! The PM1 hype train. Luckily, though, I jumped off and bought the HD600.

Psalmanazar · « **Reply #54 on:** September 23, 2015, 05:01:36 PM »

Quote from: Luckbad on September 23, 2015, 04:30:50 PM

Koloth: I am the target market of audiophile-bassheads that companies go after.

There are TONS of options. I'm not sure why you limited your thinking to open circumaural; that's not where the bass is it. Open headphones simply cannot reproduce bass impact to basshead levels. You need closed, semi-closed, or in-ear to feel bass.

Sennheiser has their Momentum, Urbanite, DJ, IEM, and 630 VB.

JVC has about 20 different headphones targeted at us. Coincidentally, the #1 headphone for bass (ignoring sound signature) is the JVC SZ2000, which is marketed toward people who love Live Sound, and not any of their headphones with an X in the name (because bassheads must like that letter, especially followed by B).

Sony has an XB line for bass.

Denon nuked the awesome Foster headphones in favor of more stylish/less awesome headphones targeted at basshead-audiophiles.

Audio-Technia has their Solid Bass and DJ lines.

Fostex has the TH600 and TH900 (probably the truest expression of basshead-audiophilia).

Ultrasone has their DJs and Sig Pros.

V-Moda is a brand built around the idea that they make better-than-Beats (they do).

Even Yamaha has a basshead offering.

Pioneer has several offerings, including IEMs that have a bass exciter that actually shake the earphone.

Beyerdynamic has bass ports you can tune up (which unfortunately sacrifice all fidelity if you do so--I hate those things).

I could go on, but I think I've made my point. Many manufacturers are trying to capitalize on people like me. People who love bass but also love faithful musical production other than the skull-crushing bass. They just aren't doing it with open circumaural headphones because open headphones suck at bass. All of them. They can't produce the back pressure necessary to make my ears literally shake.

I'm a little old to have gotten my start with Beats, but I would have been onboard with them if I were a few years younger. Instead, I had mostly Sennheisers for years until companies started to manufacture real basshead-audiophile options.

The only thing that I find tragic from my perspective is the perception that the proper basshead tuning is the V shape. The Fostex TH600/TH900 are perfectly tuned EXCEPT for a couple of treble peaks that cause me fatigue. The JVC HP-DX1000 is almost perfectly tuned full stop. All Audio-Technica basshead cans go too far to treble. Any many manufacturers sacrifice overall fidelity for the sake of bass, which I can't handle anymore.

Anyway, there are many basshead headphones that exist in the higher price segment because of Beats. Thanks to them for that, because now I have options other than a subwoofer that I can no longer use because I have a kid.

Then you have guys like me who realized right away that headphone subbass is not real and demand it be rolled off starting at about 20 hz as it makes my head feel like a punching bag. I also hate what many venue's PA systems turn downtuned guitars, bass guitars, and kick drums into. A heel to toe kick hit should not feel like a boxer punching you in chest; a high gain HM-2 pedal should just sound like a buzzsaw, not feel like your rib cage is being sawed open for open heart surgery. I often have to go to the side of the stage or right up front to get out of the sound path of the techno thumper, "You will lose your hearing even if you're wearing rifle muffs," PA systems.

Claritas · « **Reply #55 on:** September 23, 2015, 05:14:08 PM »

Quote from: Sorrodje on September 23, 2015, 07:18:54 AM

I disagree a bit for FSP though. Yes the build is definitely shitty but the sound is very good IMO.

I, too, respect the tuning. But very small earpads + high clamping and it fell apart in my hands within a month. The closed young heroes are more thorn than rose--so far. We've been suckered time again. I tried 25 closed portables before I finally said, "Fuck it! No more. I'll use IEMs."

Koloth · « **Reply #56 on:** September 23, 2015, 05:42:22 PM »

Quote from: Claritas on September 23, 2015, 05:14:08 PM

I, too, respect the tuning. But very small earpads + high clamping and it fell apart in my hands within a month. The closed young heroes are more thorn than rose--so far. We've been suckered time again. I tried 25 closed portables before I finally said, "Fuck it! No more. I'll use IEMs."

Slightly more OT than we already are: Was one of those 25 closed portables by chance the Shure SRH1540? If so, what were your thoughts on that one?

Quote from: Luckbad on September 23, 2015, 04:30:50 PM

Koloth: I am the target market of audiophile-bassheads that companies go after. There are TONS of options. I'm not sure why you limited your thinking to open circumaural; that's not where the bass is it. Open headphones simply cannot reproduce bass impact to basshead levels. You need closed, semi-closed, or in-ear to feel bass. [...] They just aren't doing it with open circumaural headphones because open headphones suck at bass. All of them. They can't produce the back pressure necessary to make my ears literally shake. [...] Anyway, there are many basshead headphones that exist in the higher price segment because of Beats. Thanks to them for that, because now I have options other than a subwoofer that I can no longer use because I have a kid.

We're talking past one another. I point out the fact that with the notable exception of the Philips X/L/1/2 phones there have been no new open headphones in the 300-500$ range released in the last 5 years (maybe longer than that even). If you're looking for an audiophile headphone for home use in that price-range you'll today have the same choice you had 10 years ago: Sennheiser HD600/650, AKG K701, Beyerdynamic DT880(/T90) and some Audio Technica ATH-AD.... phones. This is regrettable and indicative of where manufacturers feel the market is: In portable bass-emphasized phones styled to compete with the Beats headphones or to offer an upgrade to the Beats purchasers. You obviously feel quite at home with that kind of product. I'm not sure what your ennumeration is supposed to tell me: I am familiar with the JVC SZ2000, the Sony XB's, the Ultrasones and Yamaha HPH-Pro300/400/500 and the myriad of shitty Pioneer DJ-phones. None of those is what I'm looking for and what I guess the majority of people on Changstar are interested in. You like bass. Fine. I like technically proficient and somewhat-neutral sound reproduction of all frequencies. This none of the products you mentioned come even close to achieving. (And there are usually arguments that closed headphones are in principle inferior to open-back headphones in that regard because of housing resonances, the necessity of making those phones compatible with crapple ishit jack-outputs etc.) You want a subwoofer strapped to the side of your head and therefore you profit from the direction the market has taken in the last years, got it, good for you. The market for high-quality audiophile headphones in general has however not developed nearly as much or nearly as well in the last 10 years. The HD600/650 compete well (or run circles around) ANY new phones released unter 500$ in the last 10 years. That says a lot.

Marvey · « **Reply #57 on:** September 23, 2015, 05:51:26 PM »

I like to think in terms of TOTAL SYSTEM. Plan a budget for an entire system.

<$125
100% on headphones.
Use whatever for source/amp.

<$500
50% headphones
50% amp
whatever for source

<$1000
50% headphones
30% amp
20% DAC

<$5000
33% headphones
33% amp
33% source (DAC/TT)

<$15,000
20% (less or more)
40% amp
40% source (DAC/TT)

Deep Funk · « **Reply #58 on:** September 23, 2015, 08:10:42 PM »

Quote from: Marvey on September 23, 2015, 05:51:26 PM

I like to think in terms of TOTAL SYSTEM. Plan a budget for an entire system.

<$125
100% on headphones.
Use whatever for source/amp.

<$500
50% headphones
50% amp
whatever for source

<$1000
50% headphones
30% amp
20% DAC

<$5000
33% headphones
33% amp
33% source (DAC/TT)

<$15,000
20% (less or more)
40% amp
40% source (DAC/TT)

This post deserves to be stickied. Then add "This hobby requires you to manage your money wisely."

Armaegis · « **Reply #59 on:** September 23, 2015, 09:27:55 PM »

I feel that dacs hit the wall of diminishing returns the fastest. It's practically a zero cost for most people as the built-in whatevers of their devices for the most part are "good enough".

Author Topic: Spending more on an amp then headphones (Read 6514 times)

Deep Funk

Re: Spending more on an amp then headphones

Luckbad

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bixby

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Thad E Ginathom

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Psalmanazar

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Claritas

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Koloth

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Marvey

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Deep Funk

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Armaegis

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Author Topic: Spending more on an amp then headphones (Read 6514 times)