Topic: Ultrasone Tio measurements (Read 2769 times)

speakerphone · « **on:** February 09, 2015, 05:45:11 PM »

+All of my measurements are 94dB(+-0.5dB) sound pressure level(SPL) matched at 500Hz according to IEC 60268-7.

My artificial Ear (Coupler) follows IEC 60318-4 (former IEC 60711), ITU-T Recommendation P.57, ANSI S3.25 standards.

About the measuring standards

I mostly follow the IEC 60268-7 standard. I use O2 Amp for Lower the output impedance close to 0ohm. (In IEC standard, amplifier output impedance should be 120ohm.)
Also I use [1/24 octave smoothed Pink periodic noise] for frequency response analysis, and [1/6 octave stepped sine] for harmonic distortion analysis.

Diffuse Field Compensation Target follows the ISO 11904-2 standard, and Olive-Welti Target follows latest In-Room research. (Olive, Sean; Welti, Todd; McMullin, Elisabeth at AES).
But, as we know, frequency range of ISO 11904-2 standard is 20~10000Hz. So I dealt [-6dB/Oct.] at 10000Hz~20000Hz.

References

IEC 60318-4 : Electroacoustics - Simulators of human head and ear - Part 4: Occluded-ear simulator for the measurement of earphones coupled to the ear by means of ear inserts
http://webstore.iec.ch/webstore/webstore.nsf/artnum/043703!opendocument

ITU-T Rec. P.57 : Series P: Telephone transmission quality, Objective measuring apparatus : Artiﬁcial ears
http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-P.57

ANSI/ASA S3.25 : Occluded Ear Simulator
http://webstore.ansi.org/FindStandards.aspx?SearchString=s3.25&SearchOption=0&PageNum=0&SearchTermsArray=null%7cs3.25%7cnull

IEC 60268-7 : Corrigendum 1- Sound system equipment - Part 7: Headphones and earphones
http://webstore.iec.ch/webstore/webstore.nsf/artnum/043714!opendocument

ISO 11904-2 : Determination of sound immission from sound sources placed close to the ear
http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=32439

Olive-Welti Target : Listener Preferences for In-Room Loudspeaker and Headphone Target Responses
h ttp://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=17042

Feel free to ask a question about this!

spoony · « **Reply #1 on:** February 09, 2015, 06:30:07 PM »

Cool!

BTW that 9KHz spike looks painful.

Solderdude · « **Reply #2 on:** February 09, 2015, 08:15:42 PM »

I don't think OW correction applies for IEM measurements because part of the 'ear canal' is blocked by the IEM.
The OW curve is for on-ear/over ear headphones AFAIK.

When you sweep it by ear do you hear the resonance at 9kHz ? (the 16khz will be more difficult to hear)
A sharp 12dB peak that rings would not be pleasant to hear IF the music has those contents.

speakerphone · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2015, 12:51:21 AM »

Quote from: Solderdude on February 09, 2015, 08:15:42 PM

I don't think OW correction applies for IEM measurements because part of the 'ear canal' is blocked by the IEM.
The OW curve is for on-ear/over ear headphones AFAIK.

When you sweep it by ear do you hear the resonance at 9kHz ? (the 16khz will be more difficult to hear)
A sharp 12dB peak that rings would not be pleasant to hear IF the music has those contents.

Olive-Welti is not just for headphones. There is no reason for not using OW target for IEMs. These measurements are just a recording of eardrums, no matter that is earphone or headphone, blocked ear canal(IEM, sealed headphones) or not(opened headphones).

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurements-explained-frequency-response-part-one
the new article about the frequency response in innerfidelity described it well.

And about the 9kHz ringing, it is not that audible for me. Comply foam tip reduces these spikes. (This measurement is with silicon tip)

speakerphone · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2015, 12:58:51 AM »

As you see, the spikes are gone when use Foam tips.

Solderdude · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2015, 06:14:56 AM »

Quote from: speakerphone on February 10, 2015, 12:51:21 AM

Olive-Welti is not just for headphones. There is no reason for not using OW target for IEMs. These measurements are just a recording of eardrums, no matter that is earphone or headphone, blocked ear canal(IEM, sealed headphones) or not(opened headphones).

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurements-explained-frequency-response-part-one
the new article about the frequency response in innerfidelity described it well.

I disagree.
The correction curve needed for measuring coming from the FRONT of the head is VERY different from sounds coming from the side of the head (headphones).

So.... HOW can you be confident to use a correction that assumes sounds have been boucing the concha where in IEMs there isn't a Concha and the effect of that differs again with on/over ears ?

When you take measurements with different insertion depths the plots differ.
Which depth is correct for OW and have you removed the pinna flange, torso and concha influence (leaving only the, partial, ear canal)

speakerphone · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2015, 06:32:28 AM »

Quote from: Solderdude on February 10, 2015, 06:14:56 AM

I disagree.
The correction curve needed for measuring coming from the FRONT of the head is VERY different from sounds coming from the side of the head (headphones).

So.... HOW can you be confident to use a correction that assumes sounds have been boucing the concha where in IEMs there isn't a Concha and the effect of that differs again with on/over ears ?

When you take measurements with different insertion depths the plots differ.
Which depth is correct for OW and have you removed the pinna flange, torso and concha influence (leaving only the, partial, ear canal)

I think so that you are talking about the Free Field equalization. It is not a FF. Diffuse Field equalization is average of all directions of the sound. (Like in the reverbation room).
So, Diffuse Field already has those pinna, torso, etc effects.

And Olive-Welti Target is same as Diffuse Field + Room gain. Olive-Welti is not a special target. It's just modified Diffuse field Target.

You can reference the Rin Choi's blog.
http://rinchoi.blogspot.kr/2010/05/headphone-equalization.html?m=1
And Rin choi also uses Olive-Welti Target when compensating IEM.

Solderdude · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2015, 07:09:05 AM »

I am aware of the theories that float around.

DF or FF cannot be used to compensate the ear canal only, no matter how you bend the theory or feel it is applicable because others use it as well.

The average (DF) differs from FF but BOTH take torso & neck, concha and Pinna in their weighting which are of NO influence in IEM.
Thus adding a correction for torso & neck, concha and Pinna while it isn't even there is a bit fishy IMO.
FF, DF OW and other room corrections are still quite different from 'only' a (partial) ear-canal.

It's one thing to own a real (calibrated) coupler but when you apply the wrong compensation it is rather useless.

Anybody know what happened to Rin btw ?... looks like he pulled a Voldemort.

ultrabike · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2015, 07:17:50 AM »

If speakerphone is Rin all I can say is welcome!

If not, all I can say is welcome!

Here is to kool times ahead!

speakerphone · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2015, 07:45:45 AM »

Quote from: Solderdude on February 10, 2015, 07:09:05 AM

I am aware of the theories that float around.

DF or FF cannot be used to compensate the ear canal only, no matter how you bend the theory or feel it is applicable because others use it as well.

The average (DF) differs from FF but BOTH take torso & neck, concha and Pinna in their weighting which are of NO influence in IEM.
Thus adding a correction for torso & neck, concha and Pinna while it isn't even there is a bit fishy IMO.
FF, DF OW and other room corrections are still quite different from 'only' a (partial) ear-canal.

It's one thing to own a real (calibrated) coupler but when you apply the wrong compensation it is rather useless.

Anybody know what happened to Rin btw ?... looks like he pulled a Voldemort.

I can't catch your opinion... You are saying that IEM doesn't need compensation?

IEM should compensated as a Diffuse Field "BECAUSE" torso & neck, concha and Pinna aren't influence in IEM.

It is sure that DF isn't the answer, but it's the best way until now.

Quote from: ultrabike on February 10, 2015, 07:17:50 AM

If speakerphone is Rin all I can say is welcome!

If not, all I can say is welcome!

Here is to kool times ahead!

Nice too meet you! Sure I'm not a Rin! He is the best reviewer I'd ever seen.

Author Topic: Ultrasone Tio measurements (Read 2769 times)

speakerphone

Ultrasone Tio measurements

spoony

Re: Ultrasone Tio measurements

Solderdude

Re: Ultrasone Tio measurements

speakerphone

Re: Ultrasone Tio measurements

speakerphone

Re: Ultrasone Tio measurements

Solderdude

Re: Ultrasone Tio measurements

speakerphone

Re: Ultrasone Tio measurements

Solderdude

Re: Ultrasone Tio measurements

ultrabike

Re: Ultrasone Tio measurements

speakerphone

Re: Ultrasone Tio measurements

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Author Topic: Ultrasone Tio measurements (Read 2769 times)