Topic: Schiit Gungnir DAC Measurements (Read 6135 times)

Hands · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2014, 11:16:51 AM »

I thought it would be interesting to see how the Gungnir and Hex compared with basic measurements (since I have the files available), and RightMark makes it easy to generate comparison reports. Tests and order are as follows:

1. Hex - 24/96 - ASIO
2. Hex - 16/48 file, playback upsampled to 16/192 in JRMC - Kernel streaming in JRMC playback, ASIO in RM recording (I know, a 24/96 upsample test would have been a better comparison...)
3. Gungnir -24/96 (BNC) - ASIO

Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB: +0.00, -0.29 | +0.02, -0.09 | +0.02, -0.15
Noise level, dB (A): -103.1 | -95.8 | -94.8
Dynamic range, dB (A): 101.7 | 95.6 | 96.3
THD, %: 0.013 | 0.013 | 0.0046
IMD + Noise, %: 0.022 | 0.022 | 0.023
Stereo crosstalk, dB: -96.2 | -96.1 | -90.6

Files are attached in regular order (IMD swept is missing). I know the graphs can be a bit hard to read.

As for that nasty crap in the far end of the spectrum on the upsampled test, I'm inclined to believe those are RightMark artifacts due to the nature of the test and its attempts at interpreting a 16/48-based test for 24/96 results and not the actual output. Also note that the Hex does show oddities in 24-bit RMAA tests, as noted in that original thread.

Azteca X · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2014, 01:05:15 PM »

I'm sure it sounds good but this is not mind-blowing performance for a dac in 2014. I realize it's fairly affordable but let's see if Yggy can be more competitive. Expecting a DAC that plays 24-bit files to have greater than 16 bits of resolution is reasonable.

Hands · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2014, 01:59:26 PM »

Meh, I kind of gave up on relying too much on measurements. They tell us a lot of useful information, but they can make some products look worse on paper than they sound and some sound worse than they look on paper. I think the Gungnir is at bare minimum good enough on all levels (mostly an understatement) that it's reasonable to see why many would like/love it.

I do agree that my main "complaint" would be its noise characteristics and associated resolution abilities (on an objective basis). But it does still sound quite good.

I've also seen measurements of an upgraded Bifrost that looked better than what results I got with the Gungnir, so don't take my work as gospel.

Marvey · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2014, 02:35:21 PM »

Quote from: Azteca X on February 21, 2014, 01:05:15 PM

I'm sure it sounds good but this is not mind-blowing performance for a dac in 2014. I realize it's fairly affordable but let's see if Yggy can be more competitive. Expecting a DAC that plays 24-bit files to have greater than 16 bits of resolution is reasonable.

Something does not look right (there's a certain way the sine ways should look, and any kind of noise could disrupt that) with the 16 bit / 24 bit -90db tests. As Hans says, take things with a grain of salt. Highly precise equipment is needed for such tests. Here are the Stereophile tests of Bifrost:

Hands · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2014, 03:13:36 PM »

Yup, that's the set of measurements I was referring to.

firev1 had a couple good points, one being that it could be something as simple as a ground loop. Still, I do find it odd that I can get the test to give what seems to be good/correct results from the Hex or SB1240 itself (loopback) but not other DACs. I don't understand electronics well enough to explain such things, unfortunately. On the other hand, I can get the Gungnir to produce background noise on my setup (volume well beyond normal listening levels), so there's still the possibility these measurements have some ounce of truth to them.

Tonight/tomorrow morning, I will experiment with these measurements in particular and see if I can't get some better results.

schiit · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2014, 03:20:38 PM »

Yep, something is funky with the setup--the Gungnir betters the Stereophile tests of the Bifrost on our Stanfords and on an AP-2722.

firev1 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2014, 04:27:42 PM »

1khz test and PN noise IR would be cool to see, its on the shoutbox but I mention I do have a problem with measuring the Schiit Modi as well with the SB1240. It maybe some impedance/grounding/Chaos problems affecting the SB1240 due to its non-isolated inputs.

RMAA test on THD do show something though, really low higher order stuff which stuff like the Herus or lesser DACs cannot match.

On another note, I think the sweep impulse do show little compared to what is already there with the other graphs. The stepped sine method would be more revealing in a way though it requires that only one clock be used(a problem for me). Will be exploring what more we can do within our means with methods.

Marvey · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2014, 04:28:59 PM »

Quote from: hans030390 on February 21, 2014, 03:13:36 PM

Tonight/tomorrow morning, I will experiment with these measurements in particular and see if I can't get some better results.

That will pretty much be impossible with a soundcard setup using the A-D on it. -90db is very very very low level. Consider that even small signals below -90 are actually very high relative to -90db.

I can't emphasize more that stuff like this needs to be made clear. Measuring headphones which have gross errors on home equipment is one thing. DAC require another level of measurement instrument precision.

Hands · « **Reply #18 on:** February 21, 2014, 05:52:04 PM »

I agree that the SB1240 is not an extremely precise device in this scenario, but loopback tests do show the SB1240's ADC should be able to decently resolve this test in at least 24/96 mode (it shows a somewhat clean/smooth sine wave...firev1 posted his results, and my unpublished ones are pretty close). And I think the Hex results are correct...? I'm sure there are a lot of factors at play here that make some devices look poorer than they are if measured on the SB1240. Until I have a better understanding, just keep my disclaimers in mind.

Marvey · « **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2014, 05:58:21 PM »

Hmm, fishski mentioned some noise with the AD2000s which I didn't hear. I do wonder if something got damaged in shipping or if I left something loose when I changed out the USB card.

Check to see why the rising noise floor past 15k with a peak at 21k... I didn't see that before with my own measurements (if I can dig them up or if I even saved them.)

Author Topic: Schiit Gungnir DAC Measurements (Read 6135 times)

Hands

Schiit Gungnir vs. Metrum Hex - 24/96

Azteca X

Re: Schiit Gungnir DAC Measurements

Hands

Re: Schiit Gungnir DAC Measurements

Marvey

Re: Schiit Gungnir DAC Measurements

Hands

Re: Schiit Gungnir DAC Measurements

schiit

Re: Schiit Gungnir DAC Measurements

firev1

Re: Schiit Gungnir DAC Measurements

Marvey

Re: Schiit Gungnir DAC Measurements

Hands

Re: Schiit Gungnir DAC Measurements

Marvey

Re: Schiit Gungnir DAC Measurements

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Author Topic: Schiit Gungnir DAC Measurements (Read 6135 times)