CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: ultrabike on November 14, 2014, 06:20:48 AM

Title: JVC HA‐SZ1000 LiveBeat
Post by: ultrabike on November 14, 2014, 06:20:48 AM
* These are with Alpha Pads. Stock pads did IMO hell of a lot bettar: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1926.msg52112.html#msg52112

Sound

These are quite bassy and with considerable amount of impact. Unfortunately, the bass area is not clean. There is considerable amount of distortion. Not enough to completely draw me away from them, but enough to be noticeable and problematic with certain songs. 

The balance from mids to treble is not too horrible, but there is some edge in the mids that may be troublesome for some. There is also some hollowness in these that makes some live recordings loose credibility. Resolution is not very good.

Treble is not offensive or painful in any way which is a good thing. It is also reasonably well extended.

These isolate pretty well.

Comfort

I think these are not too bad in the comfort area. A little tight, but can wear them for a while with no major objections.

Presentation

Like. However these cans are freaking huge!

(http://www.acquiremag.com/2013/04/25/livebeat.jpg)

Price

$280 $180 seems to be the street price, which I think is too steep for what one gets. One does seem to get the kool factor of having two drivers per channel though:

* "Kelton-method" producing "rich bass sound with 55mm carbon diaphragm unit and dual stream duct" -> Huge driver towards the back of the cup.
* "Special tuned 30mm driver unit with carbon nano tubes diaghragm" -> Second wimpy driver with some random diaphragm technology (JVC needs to fix their Marketing blab typo (http://www.jvc.net/me/headphones/ha-sz1000/index.html))

Stupid Plots

... which are proly "contrary to ACTUAL scientific concordance":

Frequency Response

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1926.0;attach=7988;image)

Distortion Right

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1926.0;attach=7990;image)

Distortion Left

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1926.0;attach=7992;image)

CSD Right

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1926.0;attach=7994;image)

CSD Left

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1926.0;attach=7996;image)

Impedance

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1926.0;attach=8012;image)
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ2000 LiveBeat
Post by: hawaiibadboy on November 14, 2014, 01:32:18 PM
Very cool!!
Thanks for this!
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ2000 LiveBeat
Post by: gelocks on November 14, 2014, 04:13:41 PM
BTW, G, if these are the ones I sent you, they are actually the SZ1000s not the SZ2000. ;)

Also, these have MrSpeakers Alpha Pads on... just an FYI for the readers.


Thanks.
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ1000 LiveBeat
Post by: ultrabike on November 14, 2014, 04:42:04 PM
Ups! Fixed that!

Thanks Gelocks! Will try next with the other pads tonite. Extra karma for all your contributions. Thanks dude! :)p5

Um... Seems JVC is claiming 16 ohms. Will verify that tonite also. These are indeed about 16 ohms.
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ1000 LiveBeat
Post by: gelocks on November 14, 2014, 09:14:01 PM

Stupid Plots

... which are proly "contrary to ACTUAL scientific concordance"

Hahaha did not noticed that on first glance! LOL!

Ups! Fixed that!

Thanks Gelocks! Will try next with the other pads tonite. Extra karma for all your contributions. Thanks dude! :)p5

Um... Seems JVC is claiming 16 ohms. Will verify that tonite also.

Awesome! Thank you G! For me it's super fun correlating what I hear with the measurements so it's all in good fun! :)

That 16Ohms thing... yeah... these might be a bit easy to drive but properly amped is when they really shine.
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ1000 LiveBeat
Post by: ultrabike on November 16, 2014, 06:02:24 AM
Alright. So heard and measured again with the stock pads. What a difference! Liked it a lot more! At first I though maybe I got acclimated to the signature or something, but nope, live stuff sounded much less fake. Pretty decent closed cans this time around. Bass distortion issue is for the most part gone. Edge in the mids might still be there, but much less of a problem for me. Wow... They may be a little too forward this time around though.

I did screw up the impedance measurement somehow previously, and will update above. These are indeed 16 ohms nominal.

Stock Pads Measurements:

Frequency Response

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1926.0;attach=8002;image)

Distortion Right

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1926.0;attach=8004;image)

Distortion Left

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1926.0;attach=8006;image)

CSD Right

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1926.0;attach=8008;image)

CSD Left

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1926.0;attach=8010;image)

These may seem a bit pricy and uber huge, but they don't sound bad at all in their stock form. Less bassy and more neutral than what I recall from a set of M50s. Not bad, not bad at all!
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ1000 LiveBeat
Post by: hawaiibadboy on November 16, 2014, 08:18:11 AM
Man...too awesome!!
Thanks and thanks gelocks for giving your pair for measuring. headbang
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ1000 LiveBeat
Post by: Marvey on November 17, 2014, 02:27:26 AM
What were the pads that made me go "gah!" - the first post measurements?
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ1000 LiveBeat
Post by: ultrabike on November 17, 2014, 03:10:39 AM
Yup. Mr. Speakers Alpha Pads did not work IMO with these ones. Bass when up, but it also went to hell relative to the stock pads. Proly the saving grace of the Alpha Pads is that they are somewhat comfy... maybe.
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ1000 LiveBeat
Post by: gelocks on November 17, 2014, 01:14:42 PM
Yup.
I changed them mostly for comfort and because I found the low mids too forward which wouldn't have been a problem if the headphones were not so warm in the first place. But yeah, there was a reason I kept the original pads! ;)

Overall, these are the headphones that has given me the "club" experience the most... the bass is crazy once EQ'ed!
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ1000 LiveBeat
Post by: takato14 on November 17, 2014, 09:47:18 PM
So is this anything but a basshead's wet dream? I'm interested them but it's more of a curiosity than anything...
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ1000 LiveBeat
Post by: ultrabike on November 17, 2014, 09:55:03 PM
Stock pads are actually not that bassy at all. Pretty netural actually. FWIW I like these better than the M50s in stock form... The Focals might be better, but perhaps more unconfortable.
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ1000 LiveBeat
Post by: takato14 on November 17, 2014, 10:14:34 PM
FWIW I like these better than the M50s in stock form...
I can't stand the M50 so that's not much help, but maybe when I have a bit of extra cash...

Anyone heard the SZ2000 as well?
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ1000 LiveBeat
Post by: ultrabike on November 17, 2014, 10:36:59 PM
Haven't, but it seems the 2000 has some sort of enhanced rigid driver base:

http://cdn.jvc.eu/szfxz/sz/index.html

Who knows if that makes it sound moar bettar. But for the most part it seems both models are pretty similar ... two-way big hamburger-phones.
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ1000 LiveBeat
Post by: gelocks on November 18, 2014, 01:25:18 AM
I had the SZ2000 as well... didn't like it as much because it was even warmer!!!!!!!
Takato, I don't think you'll like either of these...

You can also take a look at:

http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=GR_Headphones&category=275&document_srl=46357
http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=GR_Headphones&document_srl=49622
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ1000 LiveBeat
Post by: ultrabike on November 18, 2014, 01:59:19 AM
Wow! Where did the sub-bass (and a good chunk of bass) go? Don't think I heard them like that stock... :)p8

They are proly using measurement techniques in agreement with "ACTUAL scientific concordance" though.
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ1000 LiveBeat
Post by: hawaiibadboy on November 18, 2014, 10:45:19 AM
http://youtu.be/Oa3sAg4wOpw?t=3m44s


http://youtu.be/XbgOzsXz_-A?t=3m45s

Test tones starting at 60Hz around the 3:30 mark

e12 gain switch on, bass boost on gain knob 60% (shown in vid)
Cowon with BBE+8 Mach3Bass +9

Both cans.

The sz graphs show a low sub bass because the driver is behind a buncha stuff (Kelton method).  They are not Hi-fi but simulate the club (dark, loud,) Somebody who is an audiphile once described these as being in a smokey club just a tad too close to the stage amps/speakers but enjoying the hell out of it. Plays R&B,Jazz,Hip Hop Rap very very well. They will not play Rock with electric guitar or large arena, stage stuff. Orchestra...unless jamming them into a smokey club is your thing ....not for these. I walk into Japanese hi fi shops and bass test cans for fun and these are peerless. Genre' specific but I listen to that stuff so these are dream cans. 1 year later and I'm still a fanboy




(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ1000 LiveBeat
Post by: ultrabike on November 18, 2014, 04:52:43 PM
LOL! What you did with the paper baffle is fairly similar to what I use for measurement except I add a little foam iin between coupler and baffle to reduce reflected energy. Note one thing though: Some headphones will deliver lots of bass when sealed but almost none when a little gap develops between the coupler. Some headphones will deliver relatively similar amounts of bass when sealed or when little gaps develops between the coupler.

So you would have to look at the vibration of the paper due to the sealed driver only if the pads are sealed (which in this case are). You might need to tape the paper to the cup to guarantee seal.
Title: Re: JVC HA‐SZ1000 LiveBeat
Post by: hawaiibadboy on November 19, 2014, 01:34:14 AM
 Yeah, I have messed around for about a year and my goal was measuring the validity of the "Hey these will kick your head" claims and the crowd that throws them around.  Over ear personal impressions are rank #1 and over rule graphs and anything else IMO but they are guides (graphs etc). The energy being transferred to the head via the pads is being checked more than anything. A set like the DX1000 has bass in spades but it's
(click to show/hide)

It's so big and the pads absorb an enormous amount of energy before it reaches your skull but your ears and inside the pads are getting big waves of bass

These vids are nothing more than putting a face on bass. If you can feel it on your head you should be able to see that energy...and you can. Nothing has ever conflicted with over ear impressions. The cans you think will move the paper do and the ones you don't think will don't. The Pro 900 are M.I.A from the library as their bass is higher and the pads velourish and they are not as they are hyped to be. The Q40...very nice sound but I was told the bass would melt my face....I shoulda known. I hope nobody takes this wrong. I'm just having fun. Replicable fun  under the same hardware,settings and shared.  The only variable is paper placement and that depends on the clamp style but it's always a 1/2 A4. The variable would be like a dummy head giving slight variations in feedback based on positioning .
Nothing is perfect but it all has a purpose and combined it's a lot of info to consider.

Back to the SZ. The only cans that make me ponder deep philosophical questions like...Will I be able to hear when I am 60? ...Is violently shaking loose material from my ear canal a good thing?
My ZEN cans :))