CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone, IEM, and Other Audio Related Discussion => Topic started by: borrego on August 02, 2015, 05:27:37 PM
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So is this Beyer's answer to the pirate disdains?
http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/newt1.pdf
- Redesigned baffle structure to reduce high frequency resonance
- New dampening fabric material
- Increased bass response
- Interchangeable 7N OCC cables with balanced option
- Practical carrying case instead of "crack at the hinge" aluminum box
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I actually liked the bass on the T1. Didn't feel like it needed any more - just needed some channel balancing and control of the 10k peak.
It'll be interesting to see some measurements/internal pics.
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Maybe it will be an improvement. Time will say.
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Well, there goes any hope of selling off my unit for a reasonable price. Time to head over to the bourbon thread to figure out what to use to down my sorrows.
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hello,
it would be nice if Beyerdynamic had a competitive flagship on the market. let's just hope it doesn't turn out like the K812.
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So they took a page from my dampening mod. High frequency resonances being muffles by new fabric... hrm....
The increased bass response does seem like a good idea though. The T1 is still a bit bass light in ways.
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They need to fix the treble on those Beyers Zombie. It truly was messed up.
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I wonder if Beyer would sell the new baffle frame as parts:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/508836/the-official-beyerdynamic-t1-impressions-and-discussion-thread/9435#post_11805841
Or I can glue some 1mm carbon fibre rods to the existing frame to stiffen it.
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Good news...I'll try to get my hands on a set.
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Well, there goes any hope of selling off my unit for a reasonable price. Time to head over to the bourbon thread to figure out what to use to down my sorrows.
T1 was already selling around 500$ dollars new. You can't sell old ones with reasonable price anyway.
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They need to fix the treble on those Beyers Zombie. It truly was messed up.
Treble was terrible on the T90. It was truly awful. I never had issues with the rest of them though.
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They need to fix the treble on those Beyers Zombie. It truly was messed up.
They did vary a lot.
The "good" ones sound like a DT880 with less resolution but a deeper soundstage. The bad ones are like dentist drills to your eardrums.
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Good news...I'll try to get my hands on a set.
Please do. This could be promising.
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Any scoop on these yet?
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Oh man... I tried the new T1s today at Stereo Exchange. Apparently they had just opened them from the box. From a glance, it seems like there's a bit more dampening on them than the original ones. I tried them briefly out of the McIntosh MHA-100 and my GO450 -> Leckerton. Man... THEY ARE BRIGHT!!! Perhaps even brighter than stock hd800s. The treble presence kind of just covered up just about everything else. I felt like they had less bass than my hd600s with a piece of foam stuffed between the drivers and the pads (like how Hans had his). My friend gave up on them after 10 seconds, even with the warm and laid back McIntosh amp/dac. I dont think that even burn-in will help the T1s much if they already sound this bright out of the box. Just... no.
Compared to its predecessor, the new T 1 shines through a stronger and more precise bass reproduction. This gives the sound more substance and ensures a balanced listening experience in a class. An additional damping in the heart of the Tesla driver resonances at high frequencies are eliminated. With the aim to create the ultimate sound experience, the geometry of the baffle structure was fundamentally optimized and the one-ply baffle tissue replaced by a more stable high-tech compound fabric. Thus, a resonance of the tissue is reduced to a minimum and thus produces an even clearer sound reproduction.
poo poo poo
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RIP Beyer
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Makes you wonder how much, if anything, has changed
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Not surprised.
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WEll, now I don't feel so bad about my v1s, they're boring headphones but they don't make my ears bleed. RIP Beyer's credibility,
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Once again CS to my rescue. Almost bought the V1, was determined to get the V2based on reports of a more balanced tone. I think I will just ignore the Beyer brand from now on.
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Beyer has been known for some QC and variability when it comes to their Tesla line. I dont know if they've improved on that with the new version or not. But the pair that I heard was just terrible. Beyer will probably have their whole lineup during the next NY meet, so hopefully they'll have a burnt in pair there.
Koth, you're better off just getting a DT880 if you want to try a beyer. They're the most balanced out of the whole DT770/880/990 line. The DT770/pro 80 has some pretty decent bass but suffers from some treble brightness. The DT990/600 is actually fairly good as long as you're willing to EQ down the treble or roll it off with a high Z tube amp.
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Gunner good to know. I do have the ZD Super. Aren't there variants of the 880?
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According to Mike "everything is amazing" Liang, these are much improved
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Gunner good to know. I do have the ZD Super. Aren't there variants of the 880?
Yup, they come in 32ohm, 250ohm, and 600ohm variants. I think the 600ohm variants tend to be the best sounding, especially with the dt880. I didn't have both at the same time to ever really compare. I think the 32ohm was measured before, and it had more ringing than the other variants. Plus, at 32 ohms, it doesn't play well with a lot of tube amps. There's little reason to get the 250ohm version now, especially since amps nowadays have no trouble driving 600ohms and the 600ohm version is currently only $30 more.
Here's Tyll's article about the dt880 variants:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones
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hello,
it would be nice if Beyerdynamic had a competitive flagship on the market. let's just hope it doesn't turn out like the K812.
Beyerdynamic does have THE most competitive product on the market. At the current price of about 800 USD T1 has represented the best value in electrodynamic headphones.
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Beyerdynamic does have THE most competitive product on the market. At the current price of about 800 USD T1 has represented the best value in electrodynamic headphones.
Are we both talking about the same t1? That was the second worst treble I've ever heard, after the dt990 250ohm.
Also there are many $300-$700 headphones I'd take over the t1 even if they were the same price. That treble is just disgusting
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Beyerdynamic does have THE most competitive product on the market. At the current price of about 800 USD T1 has represented the best value in electrodynamic headphones.
The T1 as a flagship isn't even as good as mid-tier headphones from other companies.
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They need to fix the treble on those Beyers Zombie. It truly was messed up.
[/b]
"It truly was messed up" is too strong a description. T1's treble is mildly grating on badly mastered albums. On well mastered ones I hear no problems with the treble. The sound is smooth like butter. Try this album - http://impexrecords.com/Well45.html You can also buy this as a 24kt gold plated CD - http://impexrecords.com/WellGCD.html
T1 should really be used with tube/valve amplifier or at least with a hybrid one. The tubes take some of the tizzzz off and extra series of harmonic overtones also help with padding lean and fast tones of T1.
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Beyerdynamic does have THE most competitive product on the market. At the current price of about 800 USD T1 has represented the best value in electrodynamic headphones.
How do you figure when you can get a DT880 or HD6xx for less than half the price?
Plus if you need a specific type of amp and specific records to keep from being irritated, I don't think that represents a 'value' proposition. Might as well get an HD800 and stop messing around at that point.
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Beyerdynamic does have THE most competitive product on the market. At the current price of about 800 USD T1 has represented the best value in electrodynamic headphones.
p:0
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[/b]
"It truly was messed up" is too strong a description. T1's treble was mildly grating on badly mastered albums. On well mastered ones I hear no problems with the treble. The sound is smooth like butter. Try this album - http://impexrecords.com/Well45.html You can also buy this as a 24kt gold plated CD - http://impexrecords.com/WellGCD.html
T1 should really be used with tube/valve amplifier or at least with a hybrid ones. The tubes take some of the tizzzz off and extra series of harmonic overtones also help with padding lean and fast tones of T1.
What is your setup? Your last post before today was from November 23, 2014. It also happened to be about the T1.
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Are we both talking about the same t1? That was the second worst treble I've ever heard, after the dt990 250ohm.
Also there are many $300-$700 headphones I'd take over the t1 even if they were the same price. That treble is just disgusting
Early production of T1, some 1800 units, was plagued by the overly hot treble. This problem was subsequently solved by the manufacturer but T1 never seemed to recover from those early impressions. Ignoramuses still play the tune.
Do you know how to position T1 on your head and ears ? The incorrect position gives thin and trebly sound. T1 exposes badly done recording and mastering of sound and that is what any decent headphones should do. I would not pay a dollar for headphones which are not transparent. I have albums which I cannot listen to with T1 [example :Sony production - Miranda Lambert's albums] but with well done albums T1 are excellent headphones.
Spread contempt and hatred instead towards those in the music industry who do fraudulent and atrocious audio engineering job and towards those who make fabulous living by peddling substandard sound.
There was a man, he was a great sound engineer, who tried in his life to bring audiophile standards to sound studios and suffered abuse because of it, because for most studios who do fast and cheap work "the consumers will swallow it".
http://www.stereophile.com/news/11427/#sJfWFPfMki4ab3EF.97
Try the album which he worked on - Martina McBride / Emotion - with T1 and you will not complain.
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I listened to Aja on the T1. The cybals sounded like glass and I don't mean that in a good way. If that's not something you consider a reference album then I'm just going to assume you're trolling.
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The T1 is very sensitive to the amount of negative feedback in the amplifier output circuit. When being driven by my Phasetech EPA-007 amplifier, there is big tonality difference changing the damping knob from 8 o'clock position to 9 o'clock position. The T1 need an amplifier with low negative feedback output circuit to sound good and realistic.
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Hm, I'll have to get my Bijou up and running again to test this out myself.
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The T1 is very sensitive to the amount of negative feedback in the amplifier output circuit...
Every headphone is very sensitive to the amount of negative feedback. The T1 is not special in that regard in comparison with other headphones with similar type impedance curves.
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Early production of T1, some 1800 units, was plagued by the overly hot treble. This problem was subsequently solved by the manufacturer but T1 never seemed to recover from those early impressions. Ignoramuses still play the tune.
How do you know this? Did someone at Beyer tell you this? Or did Monte Carlo result in the later ones that you happened to have heard have better tonal balance? Just curious as I feel such claims should be substantiated or qualified (anecdotal, a few samples, etc.) In my own experience of sampling about a dozen, 40% of T1s were the "good" tonal balance models. This was circa August 2012. Unfortunately, I did not note the serial numbers. For the three pairs we have measured here, I have always suspected that there may have been two variations of the driver. A bright driver and a less bright driver.
Misterrosters had a T1 which was consistent between both drivers, but evidently got one of the "bright overly" hot treble models. I don't have a measurement of this unit. We have two measurements of "decent" or "corrected" T1s:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php?topic=66.0
http://www.changstar.com/index.php?topic=474.0
Now let's say Beyer corrected the T1 after 1800 units... then how did this happen? Did Beyer match one of the older "hot treble" drivers with one of the "corrected" drivers?
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30.0;attach=27;image)
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,30.0.html
SECONDARILY, despite the better tonal balance of the say "corrected" T1 units, the treble still maintains a rough plateau around 10k and has very evident ringing a 7.5kHz (not a good spot - see image attachment below). I know a lot of hobbyists here at Changstar who would definitely complain about this. (Keep in mind that many people don't like the HD800 tonal balance either).
Given Beyer's QC record with other headphones, I would prefer to label the people you call "Ignoramuses [who] still play the tune" as cautious consumers.
Do you know how to position T1 on your head and ears? The incorrect position gives thin and trebly sound.
No we are all stupid here. We don't try different amps, different sources, mods, tweaks, etc. We are all stupid. Please have Beyer send us a manual on how to properly position the T1 on our ears.
T1 exposes badly done recording and mastering of sound and that is what any decent headphones should do...
This is nonsense and uses the same ol' same ol' excuse as people who defend the HD800 as neutral. What you are saying is pick a specific recording which just happens to have less spectral energy around 10kHz, and it will be fine with the T1. Most of us tend to use a wide variety of recordings for evaluating headphones. Some recordings with good tonal balance, others marginally dark, others marginally bright. The headphones with good frequency response will play EVERYTHING without a much of a fuss.
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Beyerdynamic does have THE most competitive product on the market. At the current price of about 800 USD T1 has represented the best value in electrodynamic headphones.
For $800 I can buy a lot of KSC-75s which I tolerate better than a T1. I can also buy an HD600 and a Magni2/Modi2 to go with it. And still have some change left for lots of booze.
"It truly was messed up" is too strong a description. T1's treble is mildly grating on badly mastered albums. On well mastered ones I hear no problems with the treble. The sound is smooth like butter. Try this album - http://impexrecords.com/Well45.html You can also buy this as a 24kt gold plated CD - http://impexrecords.com/WellGCD.html
T1 should really be used with tube/valve amplifier or at least with a hybrid one. The tubes take some of the tizzzz off and extra series of harmonic overtones also help with padding lean and fast tones of T1.
IMO T1 sucks man. Sorry.
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Early production of T1, some 1800 units, was plagued by the overly hot treble. This problem was subsequently solved by the manufacturer but T1 never seemed to recover from those early impressions. Ignoramuses still play the tune.
Apparently you should count me among the Ignoramuses. I have listened to at least 3 T1s in the last year (one a AK mod) and I find them all suffering from unbearably hot treble. I bet none of them were those 1800 units.
If a headphone requires very delicate head positioning or very specific amp to not be awful, it's not a good headphone. Even some of the hard to drive headphones like the HD800/HD650 sound great with *lots* of amps.
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Can we set up a crowdfund to buy a pair of Beyer T1 version 2 to be measured, toured, and burned?
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Can we set up a crowdfund to buy a pair of Beyer T1 version 2 to be measured, toured, and burned?
Sadist.
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Can we set up a crowdfund to buy a pair of Beyer T1 version 2 to be measured, toured, and burned?
That does sound like a good value proposition.
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If I had more cash available like how I did three years ago, definitely would have happened. Kids are getting bigger and eating more.
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Apparently you should count me among the Ignoramuses. I have listened to at least 3 T1s in the last year (one a AK mod) and I find them all suffering from unbearably hot treble. I bet none of them were those 1800 units.
If a headphone requires very delicate head positioning or very specific amp to not be awful, it's not a good headphone. Even some of the hard to drive headphones like the HD800/HD650 sound great with *lots* of amps.
You accidentally quoted me, I didnt say that.
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That does sound like a good value proposition.
Heck, I got a pair of K812s we can throw in as well.
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You accidentally quoted me, I didnt say that.
Sorry about that. This actually was the second try and was unsuccessful twice. :P Fixed.
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You accidentally quoted me, I didnt say that.
There have been known to be glitches in the software. Likely unintentional.
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Thanks and thanks, I just didn't want anyone to think that I liked the t1
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Thanks and thanks, I just didn't want anyone to think that I liked the t1
I can think of few greater insults.
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Beyerdynamic does have THE most competitive product on the market. At the current price of about 800 USD T1 has represented the best value in electrodynamic headphones.
hello,
it is not nice to quote out of context.
i stand by my original remark, especially the part about the K812, as from what i can gather they suck!