CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Marvey on December 08, 2014, 09:16:26 PM

Title: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Marvey on December 08, 2014, 09:16:26 PM
Someone sent these to me. Similar in spirit to the T50RP mods, but this one is based on the PM-1/2. I'm not sure what the headphone is called, but I will refer to it as PM-X for now.

I've given them a brief listen, and I must say they are really good. I'll run them in through its paces when I get more time. PM-1 was too laid back and close. PM-2 with the PM-1 alt pads was just about right with just almost discernible slight treble peak. PM-X is almost another headphone. It maintains the PM-1's deep bass while being very open sounding with lots of air and very smooth treble. It also has more bite and is not as laid back. Actually tuned a lot like the Paradox.

Measurements forthcoming. Shitty pix attached.

Measurements: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1981.msg54026.html#msg54026 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1981.msg54026.html#msg54026)
Hans measurements and impressions: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1981.msg54050.html#msg54050 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1981.msg54050.html#msg54050)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Marvey on December 08, 2014, 09:16:44 PM
Measurements attached. BTW, I have absolutely no idea what was done. Pads are different, but I suspect driver mods as well.

Much smoother FR in terms of transitions to PM-2. No dip at 5kHz for PM-X. Smooth transition from upper mids to treble. The smoothness can definitely be heard. Compare to PM-2: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1720.msg45757.html#msg45757 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1720.msg45757.html#msg45757)

Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Marvey on December 08, 2014, 09:33:51 PM
CSDs attached.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Clemmaster on December 08, 2014, 09:34:36 PM
What is the pad material? Looks like the original velour, but much deeper.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Marvey on December 08, 2014, 09:38:50 PM
No idea. I'll let the maker volunteer that info. Pads do seem deeper than the original. Fluffy with solid support.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Anaxilus on December 08, 2014, 09:50:53 PM
Nice FR. I imagine the distortion would still bother me for the things I like looking for.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Anaxilus on December 08, 2014, 10:21:11 PM
I'd probably unjustify 'AUDIO' in the logo but that's just me.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: JoelT on December 08, 2014, 10:29:39 PM
Very nice measurements. Is resolution impacted as well?
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Armaegis on December 08, 2014, 10:46:31 PM
Distortion looks to be taking a roller coaster ride after those mods...
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: OJneg on December 08, 2014, 10:48:58 PM
Distortion looks to be taking a roller coaster ride after those mods...

I thought the same at first, but it looks more or less on par with stock when you try to flip back and forth between them
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Tari on December 08, 2014, 10:58:49 PM
"Zenith" in an audio company reminds me of this:


(http://www.boxcarcabin.com/zenith-f1343-1-tv.jpg)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Marvey on December 08, 2014, 11:55:57 PM
or this: 

(http://www.ausairpower.net/VVS/Su-35S-KnAAPO-2P-9S.jpg)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: wnmnkh on December 09, 2014, 12:37:05 AM
I cannot find any information about this company. Does it have any website anyway?
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Out Of Your Head on December 09, 2014, 12:48:04 AM
I cannot find any information about this company. Does it have any website anyway?
AFAIK they do not have a website. They are a brand new company and don't think they have anything for sale yet. I believe this is their first product.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: thune on December 09, 2014, 01:06:20 AM
I can't help but see the logo as: "cover your nuts like a boss", or one of several other lewd "like a boss" interpretations.
(http://i.imgur.com/8ecdGaw.jpg) (http://fifasoccerblog.com/files/2009/06/freekickwall.jpg)
Title: Audio Zenith HP Mod - Impressions and Measurements
Post by: Hands on December 09, 2014, 02:32:33 AM
Hmm, it looks like we're not mentioning names here, but I've also had a set to test out for a little while now. So here be my thoughts and measurements. (Note: This product is not yet released and could possibly change, though chances of that are slim.)

Subjective Sound Stuff and General Thoughts

I'm not sure what to think of the gold and carbon fiber themed accents, but I certainly don't mind them or the idea. I do think the accents as a whole are a nice touch and honestly wouldn't mind seeing more of them on the headphone to make it all look really consistent. Small thing, though. The visual changes overall are definitely a plus.

In terms of sound quality, I think they sound quite nice. Clean, clear, and articulate. Good sense of air and space. Sound stage is at times a bit too much directly to my left and right sides, but I'm guessing this is at least partially inherent to the base headphone used for this mod/product. Quite smooth, fairly coherent, and laid-back sounding for the most part. Fairly neutral balance with most of the laid-back aspect focused in the upper-mids and treble. They still manage to sound less dull and constricting overall than the PM-1/PM-2 despite still being relatively laid-back.

There are just a couple things I would have to nitpick about when it comes to my silly tastes. First, I think these could use a bit more low-end power (sub-bass). They have good extension and are nicely controlled down low, but I just wish they had more kick and power to them in the end. Not a whole lot more. It just feels a little held back. A touch too thin overall, even from my Sansui 5000A, which tends to give orthos extra thickness and power.

The other thing is there is a very, very slight midrange emphasis to my ears. And while it gives some nice qualities, such as a good sense of harmonics, helps add to lower-end air, and helps give the room a better sense of defined space and resonance, it also has this tendency to, as best as I can put it to words, make everything sound just a touch hollow. I'm not sure how best to describe it, so don't get too hung up on my word choices. I played around with EQ in that area, no more than 1-1.5dB changes, and that seemed to help along with subjectively make the bass come through a bit better.

Lastly, there does seem to be a very slight upper treble emphasis, but not in a particularly offensive area. Plus, it doesn't sound like it jumps out relative to everything else, just in a localized area. It helps with detail.

But, overall, I just have a taste for headphones with a bit more bass and low-mid emphasis (general sense of thickness and power), it would seem. I also don't suspect most others would hear these as slightly mid-centric like I do, but more balanced than anything else. So, keep my personal tastes in mind when taking all of this into consideration. These are quite nice for what they are, and I can certainly recommend them.

I will say that these are a lot better sounding than a stock PM-2 with stock pads. My memory isn't good enough to recall if the stock PM-2 was a bit warmer sounding, but it overall just didn't sound nearly as natural as this headphone. I think I preferred the PM-1's general frequency response a bit more than this mod, but it was just too boring and constricting sounding despite having somewhat thicker low end than the Audio Zenith (again, these thoughts based on potentially faulty memory).

In the end, this is a really nice headphone mod. Clean, clear, fairly natural and open, easy to listen to, and quite balanced or cohesive sounding. There's a lot to like here, and it's something I could easily recommend if you think it sounds like something you'd like. My thoughts overall are quite positive with those nitpicking comments being more a commentary of my tastes.

Measurements

Frequency response looks pretty good. Smooth, laid-back curve. When I was playing around with EQ, I ever-so-slightly toned down the 200Hz-2KHz area, most strongly around 675Hz or so, to make that spot blend in just a bit more with the curve from the bass to treble. That actually seemed to help a surprising amount. The treble peak is not offensive, but a little bit of extra smoothness and perhaps a touch extra treble below that peak area wouldn't hurt either. Sounds nice and balanced either way, just somewhat laid-back. Still, doesn't sound veiled or lacking in articulation.

One thing I've noticed when measuring headphones is that some headphones just have a stronger impact and slightly fuller sound despite measuring close to the same in the bass area (or in general). The Audio Zenith sounds good, but I wouldn't mind a tiny bit more of a boost down low. Personal preference sort of thing.

Ignore those weird bass spikes in the distortion results, along with the slight bass HD elevation that starts in the mids and moves up and you go down the response. Those are just artifacts or limitations with how and what I use to measure headphones. In reality, I suspect this headphone overall has low THD from top to bottom, excluding the inherent midrange HD peak. I still don't think that distortion peak is much of a problem.

CSDs look great, which probably isn't a surprise.

Raw measurements are nicely consistent. Excellent channel matching as well, which I forgot to mention earlier. Very nice matching, really.

PM-1 and PM-2 measurement comparisons in next post.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Hands on December 09, 2014, 02:34:12 AM
PM-1 (w/ velour pads) and PM-2 (w/ stock pads) for comparison.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: antifocus on December 09, 2014, 04:21:56 AM
I can't help but see the logo as: "cover your nuts like a boss", or one of several other lewd "like a boss" interpretations.
(http://i.imgur.com/8ecdGaw.jpg) (http://fifasoccerblog.com/files/2009/06/freekickwall.jpg)

It is a bit sad to see this pic as an Arsenal fan.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 09, 2014, 10:03:03 AM
  (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/DeBPoExIXYnjFQ6RAZfpz5xT2DXJFWNz3eQSnPrx9ug=w368-h548-p-no)

 Hi
   Alex Zaets is my name and it's not a big secret.
  The logo is quite complicated though. I was amazed by how all of it just came together a few years ago when I was getting ready to associate my name with audio. I believe the magic of golden ratio had something to do with it. The A and Z letters you can see making a star represent first letters of my name as well as first letters of the company name "Audio Zenith". Audio Zenith is the place I hope to be heading with my designs. Last but certainly not least, the whole world can be discovered in-between these first and last letters of English alphabet.
   The very center of the logo is a human torso in the listening room surrounded by speakers while sound waves are also making A and Z letters within the golden ratio. I suppose everyone knows about the role of golden ratio in audio. Those who saw the human body in the logo were also correct, that is what Da Vinci saw in the golden section but there is a lot more to it and Wikipedia could be a pretty good start for those interested:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio)
   Last but for me not least is some resemblance to the Russian sign for the absolute best quality awarded in former USSR which looks very similar and was also based on golden section.

(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRn6QsM6LpwNVywlylwGvBADyDHE8o8busCAt-odk33HujtEZaI)   (https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtGzF8q_lUMKG3z21tXx0U1R56xyB0ik6BOdbLxA8yMeIgMujlkg)   (http://sceptic-ratio.narod.ru/rep/zoloto/17/88.jpg)   (http://sceptic-ratio.narod.ru/rep/zoloto/17/87.jpg)   (https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRszdQ3qytr6mEDiBmtQdmnFKD066dBCRXKCigZ9Hc_-6JJSA6B2Q)   (https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT-vwluonw77XSKRboH3sXsJwTjz3eo6bURy6Flzzr4ju4Tz36dog)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 09, 2014, 05:47:43 PM
HUGE THANKS to Marvey and Hans for posting their impressions. I will post my comments a bit later, when I get my own measurements up. Spoiler: they quite literally measure three times more linear then anything else I have ever measured.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: anetode on December 10, 2014, 01:55:54 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/6BpRqIn.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/22bCqAI.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/8tWL1OD.jpg)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Armaegis on December 10, 2014, 03:21:46 AM
Mine doesn't curve quite so much...





My hedgegog that is.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Claritas on December 10, 2014, 05:20:02 AM
The very center of the logo is a human torso in the listening room surrounded by speakers while sound waves are also making A and Z letters within the golden ratio. I suppose everyone knows about the role of golden ratio in audio. Those who saw the human body in the logo were also correct, that is what Da Vinci saw in the golden section but there is a lot more to it and Wikipedia could be a pretty good start for those interested:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio)

Stop lying, you fuckin' Commie Satanist! It's a pentagram. You can't fool us dumb American capitalist imperialists.

And that ain't no "human torso" -- it's a cock and balls just like Da Vinci used. We get it: you're gay and that's cool.

Anyway, very best luck with the mod: it would be hard not to be an improvement.  :)p5
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Marvey on December 10, 2014, 05:32:49 AM
HUGE THANKS to Marvey and Hans for posting their impressions. I will post my comments a bit later, when I get my own measurements up. Spoiler: they quite literally measure three times more linear then anything else I have ever measured.

Thank you for sharing. As I've said, I really do think they are fantastic - just a different beast from the stock PM. I was blown away how open and airy they sounded. Totally unexpected. Like you magically attached a the last 10kHz octave.

As for the rest of you, assholes...  facepalm

Let's move along.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: MuppetFace on December 10, 2014, 05:49:17 AM
I was just talking to some ortho ninja buddies of mine about modding the PM-1 / PM-2. Would love to hear these sometime, as I really like Oppo's design and ergonomics, so a flatter FR with good bass performance would be ideal for me.

Not that I'm one of the "measurement crew." I'm one you go to for nice verbiage.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: anetode on December 10, 2014, 05:51:37 AM
My hedgegog that is.

My hedgehog don't want none unless you got buns, hun

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/75/65/54/75655400e643be25c927288c518cad5e.jpg)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 10, 2014, 06:20:40 AM
 Be honest, the whole thing is just too dirty to be funny.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 10, 2014, 07:24:44 AM
   Seriously though, was about to post my own measurements with comments but instead have to spend time replying messages regarding my logo and watching my karma to go down  :)p3.
   It is very interesting though, I ran this logo by few of my relatives, friends and colleagues and everyone saw different things. Just a few examples:
   some saw a star
   some saw a chess figure
   some saw a home theater room and wandered how it's related to headphones
   some saw a headless human holding head in his arms   
  Some of you guys already posted what they saw and I figured there must be something about it then? Looks like I could outrun "Schiit" in popularity without even making any products, just have to start posting this logo everywhere? As for the golden ratio in audio I personally prefer to see this: (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTQ9kNOPOhEbL-9eu5aHcetFxhwDR8RYrbMDgsYxqE_bIzPbYSS2w) and sincerely hope you can see it too.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Armaegis on December 10, 2014, 08:25:59 AM
At first I thought the logo was an electrical/transmission tower.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: LFF on December 10, 2014, 08:29:50 AM
Cool to see others following in the great footsteps of the legendary George Cardass.  :)p2
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Anaxilus on December 10, 2014, 08:42:14 AM
Cool to see others following in the great footsteps of the legendary George Cardass.  :)p2

He invented the Golden Ratio so expect to get sued.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: firev1 on December 10, 2014, 09:44:32 AM
Seriously cool shit! Nice designs too.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 10, 2014, 05:54:57 PM
Say what you think, do what you say!
   
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 10, 2014, 06:04:10 PM
Cool to see others following in the great footsteps of the legendary George Cardass.  :)p2

   A few years back I developed a loudspeaker placement system that is quite different from golden ratio by the Cardas. Next time you are in SD make sure to ask for a demo. Some audiophiles who spent years tweaking their setups believe it or not have actually settled after employing it.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Colgin on December 10, 2014, 06:18:00 PM
pervenets -- for people like myself that already own the Oppo PM-1/PM-2, will you be offering to mod them for a fee or will you just be shipping finished products.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: spoony on December 10, 2014, 07:12:10 PM
I apparently come from a different culture which makes it clearly difficult for me to understand some things here and I don't just mean this forum.

Don't take it personally, there's a lot of people who just don't get this forum, cultural barriers notwithstanding ;)

Please do share your measurements and other insights, it is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Tari on December 10, 2014, 08:17:34 PM
   Here is an image of a pentagram : (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Pentacle_2.svg/220px-Pentacle_2.svg.png), Claritas, you must have missed a few geometry lessons at school.  Tried to Google fuckin' Commie Satanist with no luck, did you really come up with it on your own? What a genius! Moreover, if you have a cock in place of a belly button which I assume could be a mark from above for your ingeniousness, you really don't have to make everyone on this forum aware of it (there are other more appropriate forums for such .....  just Google ;-). As for your gay thing, you just got my personal message. Be honest, the whole thing is just too dirty to be funny.


Looks more like a Jewish star to me. It may just be me but that puts you in the crosshairs of some serious conspiracies....

(http://www.hamous.org/wp-content/uploads/israel-exposed.jpg)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: OJneg on December 10, 2014, 09:20:06 PM
(click to show/hide)

OMG this explains everything! This needs to get out before a Mossad agent gets worfda3ea43259oi0kjmsa.//              ////////////////////////////a;lfjdlkajfda
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Anaxilus on December 11, 2014, 02:04:13 AM
I know Audio Zenith is a new name in audio to many of you. So Alex was kind enough to provide a video tour of his production facility. Here's how the drivers get made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yOBCGwMpeo

 ;)

Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 11, 2014, 07:05:11 AM
 Please don't try to demonize the PM-1/2s original sound as I never said it was all bad, I just always thought it could be better.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: zerodeefex on December 11, 2014, 07:09:25 AM
always told me not to fuck with a Russian bear even if you have an advantage of a shotgun!

Wait, you have a pet bear? AWESOME  headbang ! Is that a common pet in Russia?
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 11, 2014, 08:37:42 AM
   Finally, dedicated a little time for posting some Frequency Response graphs. I was still working on the last mod after sending two sets for evaluation to Marv and Hans. This last mod dictated for me to perform extremely fine cutting in the back of the driver and I was almost sure that it won't find its way to production. Have to admit that not without critique from Hans I have decided to actually look real hard for its implementation. After thorough research I now am pretty much sure this can be done and will be in production.
  What you see on the graphs is my test results of the unit with mods similar to ones Marv and Hans have dated 12.8.14 and that same unit after the aforementioned last difficult mod was implemented dated 12.9.14. This mod addresses all the minor complaints regarding 2db boost in the low frequency department. It brings about 50% reduction of mid/low frequency bumps that were accountable for some distortion issues along with slight midrange emphasis as per Hans's comment (it's a quite pleasant emphasis if you were to ask me, but I see the point in making it as flat as possible so those who like/need such emphasis to be present can always get it with upstream gear. To my surprise with this last mod resolution increased quite dramatically, probably this has to do with lowered distortion and decay, which is now at least 30% better. Hope this will address all the last little issues and I could finally put something decent in your hands.
   I am also posting FR of one of my units in comparison with that same unit's original FR before any mods were made, with original pads on the same rig with all the same settings.
   Last you can find FR of some other headphones measured on my rig so everyone could see it's all legit. All my measurements are 0% smoothed, what you see is what you get except for one thing. There is generally approximately 5db tilt distributed smoothly and evenly throughout the entire frequency range. Basically that horizontal line you see in reality is tilted from +5db at 20Hz to 0db at 20Khz. 
   
   Unit with mods for Marv and Hans vs last one with difficult mod:

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/e4pG4r78Yp_1_4wiz5nVhrdFefcXVNW78XCoJdrozCI=w1123-h518-p-no)
   
   Original vs modified frequency response:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/p9glRLN8G9RYvwmOTQHmigrfkKc3N2D0IzRypSOmgkE=w895-h443-p-no)

   Some other headphones frequency response measured on the same rig:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/u15pda6wcJ_iEODSQJtWrZILGnOO9RcSxAkBoskZZI0=w895-h443-p-no)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/3Yq30hR9uzMY-GLxoFmndXsSvWTisBjLCYTcWXEzvZk=w1053-h518-p-no)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 11, 2014, 08:46:57 AM
Wait, you have a pet bear? AWESOME  headbang ! Is that a common pet in Russia?
  Good one zero! Finally a funny and tasteful joke. Believe it or not I was planning to refraze that one just didn't have time. You caught me, the score is 1/0. 
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: MuppetFace on December 11, 2014, 11:21:15 AM
For Zero:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0VJa3HmsJQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pu49SYGRnk
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Solderdude on December 11, 2014, 11:25:41 AM
I am curious as to what testrig you are using and how it is calibrated.
Those plots look great and suggest a neutral headphone only slightly 'lacking' top highs and perhaps being a bit lean on the subbass.
The comparative plots of DT880 (owned), HD650 (own), K701 (owned), HD800 (auditioned never owned) mirror very closely how I perceive(d) these headphones.

Would also be interested in how UB's rig would measure this same headphone.
His measurements seem 'closest' to those of my own.
I am quite sure my rig (cheap non calibrated home-made test rig) would measure it differently yet again, but perhaps closer to yours.

The most intriguing part (differences) of measurements always lies above 1kHz.
The difference between your and CS measurements is substantial (I think 10dB is substantial).
Plots like this should (IMO) always be viewed in the light of comparisons of other plots on the same rig.
Kuddos for including those measurements, UB and Hans often put comparisons in their plots as well which I really like.
I have not found measurements that appear to be accurate in an absolute sense but don't think it is really possible as well.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 11, 2014, 04:03:18 PM
pervenets -- for people like myself that already own the Oppo PM-1/PM-2, will you be offering to mod them for a fee or will you just be shipping finished products.
   Yes, owners of the original PM1/2s will be able to send their sets in for the mods. Expect the price to be $699.00 for the mod and $1398.00 for the brand new set directly from Audio Zenith. All my sets will come with a plot of unsmoothed original vs modified frequency response for that particular set.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 11, 2014, 06:22:06 PM
I am curious as to what testrig you are using and how it is calibrated.
Those plots look great and suggest a neutral headphone only slightly 'lacking' top highs and perhaps being a bit lean on the subbass.
The comparative plots of DT880 (owned), HD650 (own), K701 (owned), HD800 (auditioned never owned) mirror very closely how I perceive(d) these headphones.

Would also be interested in how UB's rig would measure this same headphone.
His measurements seem 'closest' to those of my own.
I am quite sure my rig (cheap non calibrated home-made test rig) would measure it differently yet again, but perhaps closer to yours.

The most intriguing part (differences) of measurements always lies above 1kHz.
The difference between your and CS measurements is substantial (I think 10dB is substantial).
Plots like this should (IMO) always be viewed in the light of comparisons of other plots on the same rig.
Kuddos for including those measurements, UB and Hans often put comparisons in their plots as well which I really like.
I have not found measurements that appear to be accurate in an absolute sense but don't think it is really possible as well.
   I have spent a ton of time and effort on making my measurements truly reflect how we perceive our headphones to sound while coupled to our own ears. This explains why you feel they mirror very closely with your perception of the ones you personally heard. I personally feel these aforementioned sets do sound precisely how they measure on my rig and hope most if not all audiophiles with properly trained ears should and essentially would feel exactly the same way.
   Disagree with your assessment of FR of my Audio Zenith PM-2 set. 

  1) With the last mod properly employed they don't sound lean at all in LF department which is clearly displayed in the first graph. In fact they go deeper then anything I ever measured being essentially flat all the way to 35Hz and showing -6db in level at 15Hz. All other sets are at least 10db down by 15Hz relatively to their level at approx 120Hz where they all are starting to dive while Audio Zenith just keeps on going.
 
  2) They go to 16,5Khz at -6db level while being essentially flat up to 13,5Khz and I have not measured a single set that extends further and smoother. There is aforementioned HD-800 that goes to approx 18Khz at -6db level but we all know how its treble sounds unmodified. Besides, I am not BS man from head-fi and can actually distinguish about 0.5db difference in FR pretty much anywhere in the audible range but I can bet you anything that there is no way one can figure out a 2db difference beyond 16Khz even assuming there is such content to be fed.
   Either way I see what I see and hear what I hear, anyone is free to disagree but I am planning to ask Ultra and others interested to take my sets for measurement/evaluation hopefully soon.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Out Of Your Head on December 11, 2014, 06:44:28 PM
   I have spent a ton of time and effort on making my measurements truly reflect how we perceive our headphones to sound while coupled to our own ears. This explains why you feel they mirror very closely with your perception of the ones you personally heard. I personally feel these aforementioned sets do sound precisely how they measure on my rig and hope most if not all audiophiles with properly trained ears should and essentially would feel exactly the same way.
   Disagree with your assessment of FR of my Audio Zenith PM-2 set. 

Alex, if you don't mind, I just wanted to clarify a little. (And correct me if I am wrong.)

Alex's measurement rig and his measurement techniques are proprietary. That is why he didn't answer you directly about his rig and technique. His mods are also proprietary, being a commercial product.

I believe Alex's measurement rig and techniques are a very big part of his "secret sauce" to getting the mods done as well as he has.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Tari on December 11, 2014, 07:02:53 PM
Man, between Alex Ultra and Purrin we're not going to have enough sponges left for Elaine.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: zerodeefex on December 11, 2014, 07:46:03 PM
Didn't you get guidance from people on this board for help in setting up your measurement rig? When did it become proprietary? Or is your pet bear doing something special during the process?
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: OJneg on December 11, 2014, 08:29:46 PM
(https://tigr.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/russian-bear-10-07-14.jpg)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Marvey on December 11, 2014, 09:42:06 PM
I can't see half the pix you guys are posting because I am at work with certain pix blocked. I am curious now. Will take the PM-x measurement on the "free-air" foam coupler on my V1 rig.

FWIW, Han's measurement so far seems to reflect closest to what I hear.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 12, 2014, 12:36:32 AM
Alex, if you don't mind, I just wanted to clarify a little. (And correct me if I am wrong.)

Alex's measurement rig and his measurement techniques are proprietary. That is why he didn't answer you directly about his rig and technique. His mods are also proprietary, being a commercial product.

I believe Alex's measurement rig and techniques are a very big part of his "secret sauce" to getting the mods done as well as he has.


I can't see half the pix you guys are posting because I am at work with certain pix blocked. I am curious now. Will take the PM-x measurement on the "free-air" foam coupler on my V1 rig.

FWIW, Han's measurement so far seems to reflect closest to what I hear.

  Thanks a lot Darin for your comment.
 FWIW I have tried around 30-50 different measurement rig implementations and at some point went through something very similar to measurements from Hans but soon realized that HF peak they all show just isn't there, it has to be a resonance coming from the combination of the materials/components used for those measurements. Look at his posted FR graphs, they all exhibit the same peak around 10K, sorry but this in my own view just isn't the reality. Went through the open cell at some point of course but coupling properties are just not there so upper mids were always affected.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Boner Stabone on December 12, 2014, 12:42:57 AM
So you are saying your shit don't stink and you like the smell of your own farts.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Hands on December 12, 2014, 01:12:48 AM
Oh yeah, no doubt my method is prone to showing upper treble peaks, usually around 10KHz, and often a dip right before that. There are occasional exceptions. Whether or not I actually hear them as such subjectively is variable, but anything that stands out in that area probably stands out subjectively (i.e. if it's relatively in line with everything else, good chance it's not something you'll hear subjectively).
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 12, 2014, 01:20:21 AM
So you are saying your shit don't stink and you like the smell of your own farts.
  Have nothing against measurements from Hans, Marv, Ultra etc. and you all know my view, it's only valid when they are judged against other measurements from the same rig. Now, whose measurements are closer to reality is another story and it's up to you to decide for your self whose shit smells better so you can stick to it and finally become a happy individual.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Marvey on December 12, 2014, 01:32:08 AM
I've only experimented with three or four major methods for measuring, not 50. But here is the V1 old style measurement of the PM-X. R channel.

UPDATE: reposted. dammit you a-holes.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 12, 2014, 02:12:08 AM
   I never offered to take my measurements to anyone for any set except my own. Moreover I take every chance to skip on providing my own measurements of anything rather then my own set when possible (Ultra posted his measurements of one of my sets half a year ago, then Marv posted his, and then it was Hans).
   I then posted mine to give people a view on how things are done here and why I make my sets sound the way they do. Like I already mentioned somewhere earlier in this tread every one Audio Zenith PM-2 will come with comparison frequency response graph, my graph, not from someone else. I actually feel obligated to do so, unlike so many other companies.
   This headphone measurement business is way too much of a commitment that I am not willing to make even if I personally think mine are superior and I do, otherwise why even start this whole modification business? But don't ever ask me to measure your own set, will not happen!
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Anaxilus on December 12, 2014, 02:36:54 AM
     This whole headphone measurement business is way too much of a commitment that I am not willing to make even if I personally think mine are superior and I do, otherwise why even start this whole modification business? But don't ever ask me to measure your own set, will not happen!

I suppose that's why you started off by using all the data from Ultrabike's rig for your use. I don't think it's quite fair to rely so much on the help and transparency of others and then tout your 'superiority' in a rather closed and absolute fashion.

Fact is Stalin also had squads who job it was to shoot retreating soldiers, no need to hide the truth of the matter. They aren't the first to do so and not the last. As for the Battle of Brest Litewski, I'm not sure you can use that as an example of defending Mother Russia since it was in POLAND! Unless you are saying Poland is like the Crimea and belongs to Russia.

On the heroism of the Russian people. Yes, they performed heroically. So did the French, Brits, Americans, Canadians Chinese and even the Germans and Japanese among others. Your grandfather wasn't the only one ever to fight in a war and you weren't the only one ever subject to "extra scrutiny". It's nice that you are here and hopefully having a better life, but you aren't the only one. This country is made up of immigrants with horrible stories from horrible places, don't think for a second your story is unique.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: anetode on December 12, 2014, 02:46:08 AM
On the heroism of the Russian people. Yes, they performed heroically.

Yes, heroes each and every one. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Boner Stabone on December 12, 2014, 03:23:46 AM
   I never offered to take my measurements to anyone for any set except my own. Moreover I take every chance to skip on providing my own measurements of anything rather then my own set when possible (Ultra posted his measurements of one of my sets half a year ago, then Marv posted his, and then it was Hans).

What you babbling about?

Quote (selected)
   I then posted mine to give people a view on how things are done here and why I make my sets sound the way they do. Like I already mentioned somewhere earlier in this tread every one Audio Zenith PM-2 will come with comparison frequency response graph, my graph, not from someone else. I actually feel obligated to do so, unlike so many other companies.

No one cares. People don't buys gear to see grafs.

Quote (selected)
   This headphone measurement business is way too much of a commitment that I am not willing to make even if I personally think mine are superior and I do, otherwise why even start this whole modification business?

You are saying your measurement is superior because you make fake grafs that gives your headphone best results. This is conflict of interest and makes you smeel like horse poop.

Quote (selected)
But don't ever ask me to measure your own set, will not happen!

No one will ask you.

It's nice that you are here and hopefully having a better life, but you aren't the only one. This country is made up of immigrants with horrible stories from horrible places, don't think for a second your story is unique.

They stayed humble along the way on their road to success.

No one will buy your headphones. They cost too much. Audeze LCD-F is always better than PM-1. This is truth.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 12, 2014, 03:37:17 AM
I suppose that's why you started off by using all the data from Ultrabike's rig for your use. I don't think it's quite fair to rely so much on the help and transparency of others and then tout your 'superiority' in a rather closed and absolute fashion.

Fact is Stalin also had squads who job it was to shoot retreating soldiers, no need to hide the truth of the matter. They aren't the first to do so and not the last. As for the Battle of Brest Litewski, I'm not sure you can use that as an example of defending Mother Russia since it was in POLAND! Unless you are saying Poland is like the Crimea and belongs to Russia.

On the heroism of the Russian people. Yes, they performed heroically. So did the French, Brits, Americans, Canadians Chinese and even the Germans and Japanese among others. Your grandfather wasn't the only one ever to fight in a war and you weren't the only one ever subject to "extra scrutiny". It's nice that you are here and hopefully having a better life, but you aren't the only one. This country is made up of immigrants with horrible stories from horrible places, don't think for a second your story is unique.
    You have got to be kidding me man! Why use someones measurements if I always had my own even from before you guys knew PM-1 or PM-2 even existed!!! What would Ultra's measurements do for me, honestly can't even understand can you explain? You have all heard my K701s half a year before Ultra took my modded set, those AKGs were the first headphones I DSPd based on my own, not anyone's measurements! I thought you all were impressed with the results, well that's at least what you all told me or was I wrong and my measurements were junk then and trash now and you were just lying?
   Brest Fortress belongs to Belarus, former republic of USSR not Poland. Can't you even read what's in that link I posted!!! I mentioned NKVD squads in my reply to your previous post (quote: This video example you found was common, ) as a fact that no one disputes, but you made it look like a main point of why USSR won that war.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 12, 2014, 03:46:12 AM
What you babbling about?

No one cares. People don't buys gear to see grafs.

You are saying your measurement is superior because you make fake grafs that gives your headphone best results. This is conflict of interest and makes you smeel like horse poop.

No one will ask you.

They stayed humble along the way on their road to success.

No one will buy your headphones. They cost too much. Audeze LCD-F is always better than PM-1. This is truth.
   This is so much of uneducated and childish BS that I won't even bother answering, every sentence is a joke except for the first one and that point I am willing to accept and try making it more clear later.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: zerodeefex on December 12, 2014, 03:56:37 AM
   This is so much of uneducated and childish BS that I won't even bother answering, every sentence is a joke except for the first one and that point I am willing to accept and try making it more clear later.

I will agree that that post was random and full of ridiculousness but you've entered this thread with a lot of hubris and I suspect it has rubbed a lot of folks the wrong way. I would consider whether that is the impression you want to continue bringing to the fore or if you'd like to be seen as humble.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Boner Stabone on December 12, 2014, 04:08:22 AM
   This is so much of uneducated and childish BS that I won't even bother answering, every sentence is a joke except for the first one and that point I am willing to accept and try making it more clear later.

joke is you take overpriced headphone no one likes and install 50 dollar mods and charge 800. no one will be so stupid to buy it. what is bigger joke is you think you are so smart. respect is earned, not from announcement of greatness. please check with head doctor.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: King Jude on December 12, 2014, 04:33:36 AM
Do not listen to this fool! Be my loyal vassal and payme tribute of $15000. I will announce the supremacy of thy wares on the front page of my kingdom and you will sell tens of tens if not hundreds of tends your PM-X modificoriations. Let us share in thy success!
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: DrForBin on December 12, 2014, 04:47:44 AM
hello,

another changstar lovefest!

 popcorn
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 12, 2014, 04:50:58 AM
I will agree that that post was random and full of ridiculousness but you've entered this thread with a lot of hubris and I suspect it has rubbed a lot of folks the wrong way. I would consider whether that is the impression you want to continue bringing to the fore or if you'd like to be seen as humble.

   Thank you zero. All the points are taken. Will try to be humble, if I can;-).
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Anaxilus on December 12, 2014, 04:53:24 AM
    You have got to be kidding me man! Why use someones measurements if I always had my own even from before you guys knew PM-1 or PM-2 even existed!!! What would Ultra's measurements do for me, honestly can't even understand can you explain? You have all heard my K701s half a year before Ultra took my modded set, those AKGs were the first headphones I DSPd based on my own, not anyone's measurements! I thought you all were impressed with the results, well that's at least what you all told me or was I wrong and my measurements were junk then and trash now and you were just lying?
  Brest Fortress belongs to Belarus, former republic of USSR not Poland. Can't you even read what's in that link I posted!!!

Hmm...maybe you should read what you posted. From link:

"The area around the nineteenth-century Brest Fortress was the site of the 1939 Battle of Brześć Litewski, when German forces captured it from Poland during the Polish September Campaign."

No, we were in SD where Ultrabike helped supply you with data using his measurement rig before you ever supplied a 701 for listening.

Is this the new 'Pravda' or R/T?

Btw, my video was not a documentary talking about WW2, it was having some fun at your driver mods. It's called humour. If anyone needs help with reading I'd suggest you reconsider who that might be.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: ultrabike on December 12, 2014, 05:47:31 AM
Pervs. I think it rubs people the wrong way when you say your measurement rig is private and secret sauce, though you based it on the work of other folks. I based my rig on what I learned from here and there (specially from Marv's posts and to some extent on Innerfidelity and Stereophile)... and so did others I think. It is of course your choice and your work.

As far as which one is superior, for me it is very hard to say. I would not say mine is superior to anyone's FWIW because that I honestly do not know.

I'm not saying this to lecture you, or because I feel Marv, Hans, Solderdude, Tyll, Atkinson, Gargamel, Gandalf, or I need your recognition or acknowledgement. Heck, I don't give much of a crap. But because I feel you deserve to know why perhaps some folks are giving you a hard time.

I also don't know much about the history of the USSR or if half of Europe, Asia, American and Africa where once part of the USSR. TBH you are here in the US and life is good.

Also, the mods seem pricey... But I know I'm a cheap bastard and might say 99% of all things hi-fi audio are pricey anyway so who cares.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Solderdude on December 12, 2014, 06:14:30 AM
But don't ever ask me to measure your own set, will not happen!

Is that because you don't want others to have your calibration and or be able to simply duplicate your method ?
Don't want it to benefit the DIY community ?
Scared Neumann copies the rig ?

Marv and Hans can easily 'apply' that calibration now but think they won't.
I have tried various methods myself and found that some headphones closely measure the same (except with the mic in ear method) while others measure quite different on different setups indeed.

Especially the 1kHz to 7kHz often is affected and can differ a very audible 5dB or even more.

My reference is one I personally trust (others won't perhaps) as listening to that to 'well made recordings' results in real sound with no hint of 'gear'.
My HD650 measures quite similar to yours (and GE's) but not to the ones on some other sites (who differ slightly here and there)
I believe Marv may have shown why that may be, as there seems to be some product variance.
I suspect Senn applies the same kind of 'matching' procedure for HD650 as they do for HD800 resulting in somewhat different sounding HD650's but with decent LR matching.
Perhaps most manufacturers of expensive cans do.
Fostex surely doesn't for their 'cheap' T40-T50RP line .
I have measured and modded quite a few of those and ALL of them had substantial differences between L and R drivers, sometimes I combined/swapped drivers from different HP's to match them closer before modding.

Saying who's rig is 'righter' and can be trusted more or completely is a bit ... well...

But you are right... you should stick with what you feel/think is accurate to use as a reference and have to draw a line where to 'work' from.
A 10dB difference, however, between your and CS measurements (differences between Hans's and Marv's are smaller) is substantial though.
Did you sent your samples to them to compare your rig to theirs, knowing they would be measured using different methods ?
If that is so then dismissing their (somewhat similar) measurements and claiming yours are 'more correct in an absolute sense, which may or may not be true, is what rubs people the wrong way as most trust CS measurements.

All measurements do show a nice linear behaviour (which is good IMO) but all appear to show a different sonic character ranging from extremely 'flat' (in my book) to flat-out warm (in my book).


I know my rig isn't perfect because to get accurate mods/EQ for a few headphones I have to listen/compare to my EQ'ed reference.
I will be open about it and tell you (and every reader) how I 'calibrated' my rig.

I 'calibrated' my rig (a flat line = sound without 'colour') by combining all known plots of HD650 (even used Tylls raw plots but with different compensation) and compared it to my own 'raw' measurements (no ear-canal or Pinna). I also know how my WM61A reacts and after I compensated for that, I only needed to 'compensate' the lows which, in hindsight, appears to follow some rules I wasn't aware off.

When I EQ my HD650 flat on that one it sounds 'right', yet when I do the same to a T50RP it doesn't sound equally 'right' and have to lower some upper mids.
Similar to how your PM2mods sound 'right' to your ears.
You have earned my respect for getting a somewhat wobbly FR 'flat' by 'mechanica/acoustical' means only !

So I know my rig does appear to measure some headphones 'correctly' but other headphones may not.
I get very similar measurements as yours though, so understand your level of confidence.
BUT as UB already mentioned:
As far as which one is superior, for me it is very hard to say. I would not say mine is superior to anyone's FWIW because that I honestly do not know.

Also, the mods seem pricey... But I know I'm a cheap bastard and might say 99% of all things hi-fi audio are pricey anyway so who cares.

I can't/won't say who is 'righter' though, in an absolute measurement correctness kind of way that is.

Hint: perhaps stick (and post) to your 'knowledge' with some humbleness applied and take the rest as 'jokes'.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 12, 2014, 06:48:10 AM
Hmm...maybe you should read what you posted. From link:

"The area around the nineteenth-century Brest Fortress was the site of the 1939 Battle of Brześć Litewski, when German forces captured it from Poland during the Polish September Campaign."

No, we were in SD where Ultrabike helped supply you with data using his measurement rig before you ever supplied a 701 for listening.

Is this the new 'Pravda' or R/T?

Btw, my video was not a documentary talking about WW2, it was having some fun at your driver mods. It's called humour. If anyone needs help with reading I'd suggest you reconsider who that might be.

   I was talking about 1941 June 22nd when WW2 officially started for USSR, you are talking about 1939 and that's ok. no one really wants to know why we are spending our time on it here ( I think). I suggest to just move on on that one.
   I made my first measurements around 2007 and can surely prove it but you think your self what you want and that's fine with me now.
   Sorry, I didn't find it humorous when you presented NKVD shooting at Russian soldiers for my methods of work. I got no sense of humor but who cares, it's an audio forum so let's just leave it at that.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: OJneg on December 12, 2014, 06:55:34 AM
FWIW I think Marv's V1 measurements are the most indicative of correct tonal balance.

And I also think Alex's mods take the Oppos more than a few steps up in terms of fidelity. I'll let others judge the value proposition because there are also plenty of other great options on the market.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 12, 2014, 07:50:31 AM
Pervs. I think it rubs people the wrong way when you say your measurement rig is private and secret sauce, though you based it on the work of other folks. I based my rig on what I learned from here and there (specially from Marv's posts and to some extent on Innerfidelity and Stereophile)... and so did others I think. It is of course your choice and your work.

As far as which one is superior, for me it is very hard to say. I would not say mine is superior to anyone's FWIW because that I honestly do not know.

I'm not saying this to lecture you, or because I feel Marv, Hans, Solderdude, Tyll, Atkinson, Gargamel, Gandalf, or I need your recognition or acknowledgement. Heck, I don't give much of a crap. But because I feel you deserve to know why perhaps some folks are giving you a hard time.

I also don't know much about the history of the USSR or if half of Europe, Asia, American and Africa where once part of the USSR. TBH you are here in the US and life is good.

Also, the mods seem pricey... But I know I'm a cheap bastard and might say 99% of all things hi-fi audio are pricey anyway so who cares.
   
   Ultra, many times on this forum members saw my respect and appreciation for your personal help, just as much as I appreciated evaluations from both Marv and Hans but this doesn't mean I took measurement techniques from any of you. In fact just the opposite, I saw how most measurements didn't correlate much with what I hear and figured something had to be done in a totally different manner.  For me this was a chance to discover and invent something of my own.
   You gave me links for measurement software and electronics, Darin sent me links for Dummy heads and all was a great help but it doesn't mean that I had to use it. How is my decision to go a different way trying dozens of all kinds of crazy things making and correcting my own errors and trying to invent something new can be considered a crime?
   Why should this all mean that I don't appreciate yours and everyone else help is just beyond me but let's move on. You are right life is good let's enjoy it.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: ultrabike on December 12, 2014, 08:02:02 AM
No crime. Do what you think is right and carry on.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 12, 2014, 08:18:12 AM
Price: there are many reasons for the $1398.00 number announced.
   1) They simply can not be sold for less then $1200 as it will be unethical and disrespectful to OPPO, it has to cost more then their PM-1.
   2) Most of the mods for T50RP are at least 3 times the price of the original and go all the way up to 10 times more with latest "Prime" as an example.
   3) Audio Zenith is a start up company so all the expenses are very much different then those of the well established business and I was actually surprised by the total cost for parts and labor.
   4) Level of performance and pricing of the direct competition had to be the major factor as well.
   5) I want to keep the price to be the same for all over the world and dealers don't work for nothing.
   6) This Audio Zenith PM-2 is truly unique and that should account for a tiny bit of premium look and cost.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 12, 2014, 08:45:08 AM
Is that because you don't want others to have your calibration and or be able to simply duplicate your method ?
Don't want it to benefit the DIY community ?
Scared Neumann copies the rig ?

Hint: perhaps stick (and post) to your 'knowledge' with some humbleness applied and take the rest as 'jokes'.

   
   No, it's because I am afraid everyone will discover I actually copied someone else measurement technique, that would be a disaster;-).
  I plan on releasing some inexpensive DSP filters to properly correct all major headphone makes and models in the near future. There is much more then frequency response to be corrected employing unique equipment and algorithms and that just can't be copied.
   I think general community will benefit from it greatly, assuming that same community wouldn't destroy me even before finding out what I had to offer (you know the logo, the background, the ego etc;-). Hope dies last and thanks a lot for the hint!
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: MuppetFace on December 12, 2014, 04:26:38 PM
Price: there are many reasons for the $1399.00 number announced.
   1) They simply can not be sold for less then $1200 as it will be unethical and disrespectful to OPPO, it has to cost more then their PM-1.

With all due respect, it seems like you're constructing a story to suit you. One could just as easily turn it around and say that selling a modded PM-2 for more than OPPO's flagship PM-1 is taking the piss out of Oppo and is disrespectful.

You put in a lot of work creating these mods, I get that, and that alone should be enough to justify your price tag. Believe me, I know and respect how much work goes into modifying a headphone. I think you do a disservice to yourself however by saying it's because of being ethical toward Oppo. Let your mods and hard work stand on their own merits for the price you are asking.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Tari on December 12, 2014, 04:38:29 PM
I actually have a mod for the HD700 (http://www.head-fi.org/t/614011/sennheiser-hd700-review/210#post_11118177), I am going to charge $1600 for it complete with headphone as it would be disrespectful to Sennheiser to charge less than the cost of an HD800. 
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: aufmerksam on December 12, 2014, 04:49:03 PM
I actually have a mod for the HD700 (http://www.head-fi.org/t/614011/sennheiser-hd700-review/210#post_11118177), I am going to charge $1600 for it complete with headphone as it would be disrespectful to Sennheiser to charge less than the cost of an HD800. 

I am envisioning this mod to be an HD800 with "HD700 + Tari" written in red sharpie on the side. I would probably listen to that, but $1600 seems a bit steep. Are you doing any cool black friweek deals next year?
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 12, 2014, 05:35:04 PM
With all due respect, it seems like you're constructing a story to suit you. One could just as easily turn it around and say that selling a modded PM-2 for more than OPPO's flagship PM-1 is taking the piss out of Oppo and is disrespectful.

You put in a lot of work creating these mods, I get that, and that alone should be enough to justify your price tag. Believe me, I know and respect how much work goes into modifying a headphone. I think you do a disservice to yourself however by saying it's because of being ethical toward Oppo. Let your mods and hard work stand on their own merits for the price you are asking.

   I have a long and bumpy enough relationship with OPPO to not construct any stories. Anything can be turned around and proof can be seen all over this thread but that doesn't mean I won't stick to my own principles.  I very much appreciate your understanding of the hard work that was put in and all your kind words though.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Boner Stabone on December 12, 2014, 07:13:47 PM
I do not think oppo cares what you do. You are dumb if you want to be respectful to Oppo. Business is same as war.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Colgin on December 12, 2014, 07:55:44 PM
Price: there are many reasons for the $1399.00 number announced.
   1) They simply can not be sold for less then $1200 as it will be unethical and disrespectful to OPPO, it has to cost more then their PM-1.
   2) Most of the mods for T50RP are at least 3 times the price of the original and go all the way up to 10 times more with latest "Prime" as an example.
   3) Audio Zenith is a start up company so all the expenses are very much different then those of the well established business and I was actually surprised by the total cost for parts and labor.
   4) Level of performance and pricing of the direct competition had to be the major factor as well.
   5) I want to keep the price to be the same for all over the world and dealers don't work for nothing.
   6) This Audio Zenith PM-2 is truly unique and that should account for a tiny bit of premium look and cost.

Clearly, you can price however you want without any justification and let supply and demand let you know if you got it right. No need to justify. That said, 2-6 more or less make sense to me and I have no doubt that whether or not the proposed price makes sense to potential customers, below a certain price is just not worth the time and effort you are undoubtedly putting into each unit. But #1 makes no sense to me. You have no obligation of any kind to Oppo unless you have some sort of arrangement with them with respect to PM-1/PM-2 and I am quite certain you do not.

Edit: And best of luck with your endeavor.  I hope you put out a great product.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: DrForBin on December 12, 2014, 08:01:19 PM
hello,

   
Price: there are many reasons for the $1399.00 number announced.
   1) They simply can not be sold for less then $1200 as it will be unethical and disrespectful to OPPO, it has to cost more then their PM-1.   

this seems to be a very strange way to justify a pricing strategy.

if the base is the PM-2, why is pricing not based on it's MSRP plus the cost of the mods?

as an ancient veteran of the retail wars, i would think that the OPPO MSRP would be based on keystone (i.e. wholesale =50% of MSRP.)

i am not sure if you are purchasing the original headphones at retail and then marking up from there, which perhaps could justify the premium you are charging. if so, you are being unrealistic in deciding to go commercial with your mod at all regarding cost of materials.

also, amortizing your start-up costs with your first product is a sure way to alienate potential customers IMHO.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 12, 2014, 09:52:08 PM
   Thanks a lot for the kind words Colgin, I will surely do my very best.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 12, 2014, 10:16:24 PM
hello,

   
this seems to be a very strange way to justify a pricing strategy.

if the base is the PM-2, why is pricing not based on it's MSRP plus the cost of the mods?

as an ancient veteran of the retail wars, i would think that the OPPO MSRP would be based on keystone (i.e. wholesale =50% of MSRP.)

i am not sure if you are purchasing the original headphones at retail and then marking up from there, which perhaps could justify the premium you are charging. if so, you are being unrealistic in deciding to go commercial with your mod at all regarding cost of materials.

also, amortizing your start-up costs with your first product is a sure way to alienate potential customers IMHO.

   OPPO is a direct sales company, at least here in US. I sure wish there was industry standard 50% thing but unfortunately this isn't happening. The only thing I could do is try making my Audio Zenith cost the same for everyone so there is no complaints from say Europe about unfair pricing. Overseas I will have to have dealers and as you can imagine will take a big hit on profitability, but I would rather do that then listen to complaints about unfairness.
   I wasn't talking about amortizing my start up costs, I meant to say that low volume pricing on just about everything needed for production is an issue with such start up. I just can't afford buying everything in a huge bulk hoping it will all sell one day.
  Hope this helps and thanks a lot for making me clarify those points.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Boner Stabone on December 12, 2014, 10:30:38 PM
You should worry about selling one before worrying about Europe, Intl, dealers. Let me ask: purrin or hans, you both heared it. Will you buy this overpriced gear? I recommended realistic self-assessment or suicide for you.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Marvey on December 12, 2014, 10:38:16 PM
TEMP. LOCKING THREAD.


Anyways, I also got some Audeze. Will take same measurements and compare. I think relative comparison would be fair.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Drakkard on December 16, 2014, 01:19:06 PM
Russians on foreign forums often acts so strange, makes me feel  :-[
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Claritas on December 16, 2014, 01:59:40 PM
I chalk up what happened to: arrogance and language barrier (on Alex' side) and sensible criticism, good/bad jokes, whininess, and cruelty (on our side).

Eventually people were just baiting the bear, especially all the complaints about pricing. I sympathize if you want it for less money--who wants to pay more?--but no one's forcing you to buy it. Audio Zenith isn't Healthcare.gov.

I hope impressions from upcoming Christmastime meets will move the discussion forward in a positive and/or sensibly critical direction.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 16, 2014, 04:02:05 PM
   Difficult not to fall into arrogance trap when what seems like everyone starts pissing on your baby. Tough to understand and even less so agree if never had one.
   Ignoring and hiding is never a way for a Bear and the end is predictable: crushed sculls on one side and dead Bear on the other.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: MuppetFace on December 16, 2014, 04:20:00 PM
Looking back through this thread, I don't see much pissing on the headphones though? That's actually pretty rare for these forums.

The flaming seems to all be about your online persona. It's a matter of forum culture: people here are less interested in hearing stories of your childhood and philosophy of the golden ratio. It's considered "noise" here. Personally speaking I think that kind of stuff is interesting, and I think it would be better received on head-fi: I would enjoy reading about your history there.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: zerodeefex on December 16, 2014, 04:29:22 PM
I actually think that stuff is interesting, too. The thread about your headphones was probably not the right place for it :)


Edit: also, aren't you the guy who said Marv's speakers weren't that great and thought everything else you've heard?


If you want more opinions on your gear, we're having a mini meet in the SF Bay Area and your cans could be compared side by side with quite a few flagships:
If you're certain about the value proposition at $1400, you should feel comfortable with your cans being compared by a wide range of folks against these other models.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Anaxilus on December 16, 2014, 07:07:37 PM
   Difficult not to fall into arrogance trap when what seems like everyone starts pissing on your baby. Tough to understand and even less so agree if never had one.
   Ignoring and hiding is never a way for a Bear and the end is predictable: crushed sculls on one side and dead Bear on the other.

Lol, you should be the one to talk about pissing on other headphones. First you apply some PEQ to the K701 and champion it as the HD800 and Stax 009 destroyer. Now it's the modded PM2 which is the destroyer of all flagships. Everything you touch is the destroyer of ALL and you can't take a little criticism? You must be kidding. Russian Bear?? Lol, you strike me more as a Laika:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika

(http://sciencepenguin.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Laika-1.jpg)

He never made it back from his mission btw. Woof! Woof!

Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: OJneg on December 16, 2014, 07:28:00 PM
Thread right now:

(http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site21/2012/0426/20120426_033444_BEAR%20FALLING_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 16, 2014, 07:33:32 PM
Looking back through this thread, I don't see much pissing on the headphones though? That's actually pretty rare for these forums.

The flaming seems to all be about your online persona. It's a matter of forum culture: people here are less interested in hearing stories of your childhood and philosophy of the golden ratio. It's considered "noise" here. Personally speaking I think that kind of stuff is interesting, and I think it would be better received on head-fi: I would enjoy reading about your history there.

   First sign of arrogance I detect in post #40 but according to you 39 posts before it were all just cookies and cream.
   Not trying to pick another fight but I seemed to control myself well enough for quite a while.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: anetode on December 16, 2014, 09:58:33 PM
Eventually people were just baiting the bear, especially all the complaints about pricing.

This is when one has to remain stoic, like Conan.

(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6424/837/1600/conantv3.jpg)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: zerodeefex on December 16, 2014, 10:12:00 PM
Are you interested in a pair being on demo at the SF Bay mini meet (recommended in post #92)? You would get a lot of people comparing your headphones purely on merit against other flagships if you are interested.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 17, 2014, 12:14:08 AM
Lol, you should be the one to talk about pissing on other headphones. First you apply some PEQ to the K701 and champion it as the HD800 and Stax 009 destroyer. Now it's the modded PM2 which is the destroyer of all flagships. Everything you touch is the destroyer of ALL and you can't take a little criticism? You must be kidding. Russian Bear?? Lol, you strike me more as a Laika:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika

(http://sciencepenguin.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Laika-1.jpg)

He never made it back from his mission btw. Woof! Woof!



   You know better then most it wasn't just PEQ applied to those 701s. I stated publicly many times that proper FR for me personally is the most essential part of the overall sound quality in both headphones and loudspeakers (you should also know I DSPd speakers professionally for many years).
   I specifically demoed those AKGs against both 009s and 800s from the same source at several meets because honestly believe they can compete and to many even come out on top. To me personally they were a clear winner and was never a secret.
   Moreover I honestly believe many audiophiles value different things in sound quality simply because it's difficult to experience proper FR with anything except for life concerts but even those become less and less so while being EQd and amplified all over the place. How you can put this personal opinion of mine against what everyone else values in sound quality is beyond me though. When and where did I publicly proclaim that any of my sets are best of the best and the absolute truth in audio? 
   My PM-2 measured three times better then most anything else on MY OWN RIG and so what, do you suggest I should just hide it? If you think different then measure it yourself compare and then judge, I won't mind.   
   As for me not being able to take a little critique you are wrong again:
   1) per comments from Hans trim materials were changed from carbon fiber to a hologram obtaining a cleaner, more polished look (even though I started working on those changes well before he first saw my set his opinion mattered a lot because there was no consensus from people I know as to which way to go).
   2) per multiple comments logo was changed slightly but suppose in a good and acceptable way ;-)
   3) LF boost was added per comments from Hans even though work on that last mod has started a while ago and I was just debating to put it in production or not Hans definitely gave me that last push that I could make it (see FR graphs posted earlier)
   4) Decided to include a good quality 6.35 Stereo to XLR adapter to increase the overall value.
   
   Funny and sad how you mentioned Laika, she (not a male dog as you say) underwent incredible training, was selected for a mission to cosmos and She Has Been There. This makes her an astronaut but what does this make you, those who make fun of the first astronauts?
   Either way, I feel your latest comments are becoming less and less sensible while being more and more personally insulting at the same time. Not sure how you can't see it yourself but sorry no one is telling you.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 17, 2014, 12:40:48 AM
Are you interested in a pair being on demo at the SF Bay mini meet (recommended in post #92)? You would get a lot of people comparing your headphones purely on merit against other flagships if you are interested.
  Didn't ignore your previous post zero, what is the date? All my units are out for testing but I should have one after the SoCal meet this week where we will be putting it against SR-009, LCD-3f, ESP-950 and HD-800. All of those were purchased, 009 borrowed by me personally for one particular reason: to demo along and possibly destroy the Audio Zenith PMx2 (the destroyer per Anax ;-). I will try to either come to your meet if allowed or will ship it to you if there is enough time.
   Either way will do my best .
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: OJneg on December 17, 2014, 02:09:21 AM
I think it'd be cool if the PM-X was renamed as "The Destroyer" or "PM-K19"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_K-19
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Anaxilus on December 17, 2014, 07:02:12 AM
   You........
.......To me personally they were a clear winner and was never a secret.
   Moreover I honestly believe many audiophiles value different things in sound quality simply because it's difficult to experience proper FR with anything except for life concerts but even those become less and less so while being EQd and amplified all over the place. How you can put this personal opinion of mine against what everyone else values in sound quality is beyond me though. When and where did I publicly proclaim that any of my sets are best of the best and the absolute truth in audio?
 
   My PM-2 measured three times better then most anything else on MY OWN RIG and so what, do you suggest I should just hide it?
   
   Funny and sad how you mentioned Laika, she (not a male dog as you say) underwent incredible training, was selected for a mission to cosmos and She Has Been There. This makes her an astronaut but what does this make you, those who make fun of the first astronauts?
   Either way, I feel your latest comments are becoming less and less sensible while being more and more personally insulting at the same time. Not sure how you can't see it yourself but sorry no one is telling you.

1-You've made snide comments about how 'superior' your modded Oppos are to the HD800 using snide remarks to describe the HD800 and other phones before. As if their praise was undeserved compared to the modded PM2 driver which is clearly inferior to even the Abyss driver which still can't hold a candle to the HD800 in some regards. I've had to hear about this superiority from you in person at least 3x's in person over and over again. I see no evidence from those times or elsewhere where you claim to appreciate anything from any other driver on the market as even performing close to 'accurate' per your standards.

You continue this hypocrisy of talking out both sides of your mouth which is personally annoying and revolting to me so take that as personal if you like. How can you say we all value different things and go on continuing to say things like they are the clear winner.  Why don't you let the phones and measurements speak for themselves instead of injecting your own bias all the time? Also while letting us know how special you are while making better phones than everybody else while using the better measurements than everybody else and never say anything offensive or wrong (disproved many times already). Your opinion of yourself is borderline egomanical and has nothing to do with headphones or audio gear. It's just an annoying biased distraction.

2-No offense but I've heard and installed first class DSP in award winning mobile platforms for years too. IMHO, I've heard better DSP implementations from cheap Creative Labs and other out of the box solutions that have been used for decades now. To my ears, your DSP implementations are too dominated by PEQ more than any other notable algorithms or compensations.

3-I'd like to see you explain and quantify the Oppos measuring 300% (3x's) better than any other headphone. We're waiting.

4-I believe the term you are looking for is Cosmonaut Comrade Alexei. I was making fun of YOU, the self proclaimed Russian bear, not the dog. Laika supposedly means 'barker' as well. That's you. Look at your posts, woof woof. I suppose it was insulting to Laika comparing you to her.

What have I done in my life? PM me and we'll compare resumes you super studly bear. :vomit: Last time I put my life on the line for other people, I volunteered. I wasn't drafted, had a gun to my back or shoved into a silver ball by a bunch of commies in bunny suits. Perhaps that makes me dumber and weaker than a dog sitting in a can? Thanks.

My professional advice to you is stick to talking about headphones in an unbiased manner next time you want to sell something and STFU about anything else unrelated to what you think you know about. Consider that a warning. My tolerance level for your BS is now at ZERO.


Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Anaxilus on December 17, 2014, 07:11:05 AM
I think it'd be cool if the PM-X was renamed as "The Destroyer" or "PM-K19"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_K-19

How dare you! Kapitalist, Imperialist swine mock Soviet heroes of nuclear technological revolution that paved way for modern world. These heroes of Mother Russia showed great comradeship sharing radiological poisoning in name of human progress. Could not have Chernobyl without. Not so much hero level of dead dog in metal can spinning around earth at 8km/s, but still hero like not seen since anschluss of Crimea!
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: DrForBin on December 17, 2014, 07:40:48 AM
All my units are out for testing but I should have one after the SoCal meet this week where we will be putting it against SR-009, LCD-3f, ESP-950 and HD-800.

hello,

how convenient.

as the modder of these has what i would consider an absurdest explanation for his pricing strategy and an unwillingness to embrace transparency regarding measurement, can this thread just be locked?

too bad really, the initial post showed some extremely promising results. but this has turned into a mean spirited pissing match. IMHO, YMMV, yada, yada, yada...
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: zerodeefex on December 17, 2014, 07:49:46 AM
The meet is on the 27th but we're all full up. I can make sure a pair is compared to other cans if you want.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Drakkard on December 17, 2014, 10:45:20 AM
How dare you! Kapitalist, Imperialist swine mock Soviet heroes of nuclear technological revolution that paved way for modern world. These heroes of Mother Russia showed great comradeship sharing radiological poisoning in name of human progress. Could not have Chernobyl without. Not so much hero level of dead dog in metal can spinning around earth at 8km/s, but still hero like not seen since anschluss of Crimea!
Well, while I understand your sarcasm and jokes pointed towards pervenets, and its probably deserved, lets keep it at bay.. We are not joking about Three Mile Island accident or annexation of Texas, okay? ;P
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: anetode on December 17, 2014, 11:36:08 AM
Well, while I understand your sarcasm and jokes pointed towards pervenets, and its probably deserved, lets keep it at bay.. We are not joking about Three Mile Island accident or annexation of Texas, okay? ;P

(http://couldhavetakenitsolo.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/stalin-u-mad-bro.jpg)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Anaxilus on December 17, 2014, 12:17:18 PM
We are not joking about Three Mile Island accident or annexation of Texas, okay? ;P

(http://download.gamespotcdn.net/d4/user_images/2718/notsure.jpg)

Go ahead and joke about them. Why not?  :P

Equivocation?
1836-Independence from the Republic of Mexico.
1845-Admitted to the Union as the 28th state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_annexation

(http://www.rayur.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Chest-X-ray.jpg)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident_health_effects

 :)p1

(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vVGEhI-ZhUc/maxresdefault.jpg)



Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Drakkard on December 17, 2014, 06:30:19 PM
(http://couldhavetakenitsolo.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/stalin-u-mad-bro.jpg)
Nope, just a bit tired :) and Stalin was great ruler, eeeyup.

Anaxilus, aha, like USA totally not involved, lol.
And if you want to measure disasters by people deaths, thats another talk.
I guess you read about crimea annexation in wiki too? And i was there.

I dont think its a place for such discuss, and it was not my point to anyway.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Anaxilus on December 17, 2014, 10:51:55 PM
Nope, just a bit tired :) and Stalin was great ruler, eeeyup.

Anaxilus, aha, like USA totally not involved, lol.

I guess you read about crimea annexation in wiki too? And i was there.

I dont think its a place for such discuss, and it was not my point to anyway.

Actually no it wasn't. LOLOLOL!!  ::) The US refused to provide troops and support to Texas. Heard of The Alamo? Or were you there? You should learn how states work and why it's different than being a slave to a central authoritarian govt. Plus the Mexicans that sided with Sam Houston and Travis for independence weren't even American.

Crimea? Lol, yeah Putin is a real hero of the people. Anyone with half a brain, a little historical knowledge and saw the invasion videos knows what he's been up to. Thank goodness my formal education and training is a little more comprehensive than wikipedia or Russia Times. I hope having primary control over the Black Sea with which to project the Black Sea fleets power for Putin's Czarist Imperial ambitions was worth all the people killed, wounded and economic sanctions. Gotta have some place to put those 80 new ships. Enjoy your little port. NATO will really have to rethink those invasion plans of Moscow now. :))
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/23/us-russia-navy-ships-idUSKCN0HI16K20140923

Oh, tell Putin thanks for saving Russia from Anti-Semitism.  facepalm
 poo 

We have enough Natural Gas in the US to supply Europe and Ukraine without them having to endure the Kremlin's stupidity and barbarism.  :)p5
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: DrForBin on December 18, 2014, 07:09:51 AM
hello,

 popcorn
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on December 18, 2014, 07:17:35 AM
The meet is on the 27th but we're all full up. I can make sure a pair is compared to other cans if you want.
   Sad to realize you can't find a single spot for someone willing to travel half a thousand miles just to bring something you wanted to listen/compare. I would still do my best to get you the unit on-time.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Drakkard on December 18, 2014, 10:02:35 AM
Anaxilus
It's worse than I thought. facepalm I can only smile at this "Czarist Imperial Putin" propaganda. You still don't understand whats going on, and possibly will never do. Its fun to blame our propaganda, and be completely blind about USA one. I know, I will not be able to change this opinion, and its not my point. I just asked to stay away from questionable points, but if you insist, then I will not interfere. Go ahead and assert yourself. You dont need even a half of brain for it, regardless of what you think.
We have enough Natural Gas in the US to supply Europe and Ukraine without them having to endure the Kremlin's stupidity and barbarism.  :)p5
Sure you do. Go for it, possibly you still have some time until your shale bubble explodes.
I'm out :gross:
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: zerodeefex on December 18, 2014, 06:08:16 PM
   Sad to realize you can't find a single spot for someone willing to travel half a thousand miles just to bring something you wanted to listen/compare. I would still do my best to get you the unit on-time.


A few thoughts:


Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Tari on December 18, 2014, 06:13:08 PM

A few thoughts:
  • This is my house. There is a finite amount of space. We're already over what would be a comfortable capacity. It's not a huge house; this is the Silicon Valley and property is generally $650-1100/square foot in my neighborhood. I've already spent quite a bit on scotch, power strips, and food for the event. I'm already turning away people I know.

  • Again, this is my house. I don't know you, and based off the way you've conducted yourself online combined with impressions from a number of friends on how you choose to conduct yourself at mini meets down south, I don't want you or your product in my home anymore. Sorry for wasting your time suggesting it was a good idea.

  • Once again, this is my house. All of the attendees save Elysian's +1, Casey from Light Harmonic, and one other are folks I've at least met and had a cordial conversation with in real life. A significant percentage of the people coming are my actual friends, including Gavin from Light Harmonic. You seem like a pompous asshole and I don't want your energy anywhere near the house where I'm raising my child nor am I comfortable from a safety perspective. I don't want someone lifting jewelry or other expensive items from my home.

I'm confused due to your nebulous wording.  Is this your house?
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: zerodeefex on December 18, 2014, 06:26:03 PM
I'm confused due to your nebulous wording.  Is this your house?


I just re-read my post and realized you're right, I'm incredibly ambiguous. It's actually at a local Denny's. I'll PM you the address.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Anaxilus on December 18, 2014, 06:35:17 PM
Anaxilus
It's worse than I thought. facepalm I can only smile at this "Czarist Imperial Putin" propaganda. You still don't understand whats going on, and possibly will never do. Its fun to blame our propaganda, and be completely blind about USA one. I know, I will not be able to change this opinion, and its not my point. I just asked to stay away from questionable points, but if you insist, then I will not interfere.I'm out :gross:

Well you can't ask for peace after launching a counter attack with Texas and 3-mile island which are not even comparable. You can't have it both ways. I know Russian habits die hard so this might be a difficult concept for you.

By all means, explain to us how American and Russian propaganda are wrong about Crimea and Ukraine. I was watching R/T news the entire time Crimea and the Strelkov murders were happening. Let me guess, the CIA shot down Malaysia airlines too to frame Russia? I've been waiting for two posts for something other than "I was there". As if standing on a street corner would even provide any insight to be of any strategic value. So by all means, back up your claim that Russia invading and taking over Crimea was necessary for a better, more peaceful world. Feel free to start a thread to educate us.

Czarist/Imperial "propaganda"? Before/After. I believe that's a Hapsburg double Eagle. Was Czar Nicolas a Bolshevik?

(http://static.newworldencyclopedia.org/thumb/f/f3/Flag_of_Russia.svg/450px-Flag_of_Russia.svg.png)

(http://www.theodora.com/flags/new9/russia_flag_with_eagle.gif)

From the horses mouth:

"Russian President Vladimir Putin just dropped the biggest, scariest dogwhistle of the Ukraine crisis: "Novorossiya."

The word literally means "new Russia" — it was an old, imperial-era term for southern Ukraine, when it was part of the Russian Empire, and is now a term used by Russia ultra-nationalists who want to re-conquer the area."

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/28/6080589/putin-ukraines-rebels-novorossiya (http://www.vox.com/2014/8/28/6080589/putin-ukraines-rebels-novorossiya)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Armaegis on December 18, 2014, 06:36:53 PM
I'm confused due to your nebulous wording.  Is this your house?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mriXncI96lw
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: shipsupt on December 18, 2014, 07:09:51 PM
(http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-party-at-my-house-3.png)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Colgin on December 18, 2014, 07:23:14 PM

A few thoughts:
  • This is my house. There is a finite amount of space. We're already over what would be a comfortable capacity. It's not a huge house; this is the Silicon Valley and property is generally $650-1100/square foot in my neighborhood. I've already spent quite a bit on scotch, power strips, and food for the event. I'm already turning away people I know.

  • Again, this is my house. I don't know you, and based off the way you've conducted yourself online combined with impressions from a number of friends on how you choose to conduct yourself at mini meets down south, I don't want you or your product in my home anymore. Sorry for wasting your time suggesting it was a good idea.

  • Once again, this is my house. All of the attendees save Elysian's +1, Casey from Light Harmonic, and one other are folks I've at least met and had a cordial conversation with in real life. A significant percentage of the people coming are my actual friends, including Gavin from Light Harmonic. You seem like a pompous asshole and I don't want your energy anywhere near the house where I'm raising my child nor am I comfortable from a safety perspective. I don't want someone lifting jewelry or other expensive items from my home.

All of the above great reasons. But I think you forgot the following regarding lack of space:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj8JrQ9w5jY


Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Anaxilus on December 18, 2014, 08:39:51 PM
Ah...so that's where the Texas thing came from. Putin on R/T News and Russian controlled media. So much for independent thinking.

http://www.redding.com/newsy/putin-compares-tension-with-west-to-chaining-a-siberian-bear

This bear shit is just frickin' hilarious.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: anetode on December 18, 2014, 09:08:42 PM
Ah...so that's where the Texas thing came from. Putin on R/T News and Russian controlled media. So much for independent thinking.

http://www.redding.com/newsy/putin-compares-tension-with-west-to-chaining-a-siberian-bear

This bear shit is just frickin' hilarious.

(http://s.quickmeme.com/img/e5/e528e6b256f69932d3c07b07379f0debc4cf3c1eb2f06361481efc7b8adc095e.jpg)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: aufmerksam on December 18, 2014, 10:14:48 PM
(https://media.zenfs.com/en-US/video/video.snl.com/SNL_1400_15_Bear_City.png)

Population: Bears
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: n3rdling on December 19, 2014, 12:27:11 AM
Looks like a nice neighbearhood
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Solderdude on December 19, 2014, 06:16:39 AM
Some numbers...

BS to on topic ratio for this thread sofar....
72% - 28%
72% off topic BS that is.

positive Zenith: IMO 'King Jude' followed by Pervenents post of comparative plots.
negative Zenith: too many too mention.

Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Anaxilus on December 19, 2014, 07:28:38 AM
Some numbers...

BS to on topic ratio for this thread sofar....
72% - 28%
72% off topic BS that is.

positive Zenith: IMO 'King Jude' followed by Pervenents post of comparative plots.
negative Zenith: too many too mention.



Yup. The OP was advised to stick to talking about headphones only and as such here we are. Bears, gulags, Texas and redacted genitalia. If/when the OP can learn that lesson we'll clean up the thread. 2 more days till we find out.

Consider it kindness or weakness the thread hasn't been perma-locked and/or moved to forum Siberia.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Solderdude on December 19, 2014, 08:47:33 AM
Let's hope he does .... and the other pirates as well.  :D

Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Anaxilus on December 19, 2014, 09:09:16 AM
Let's hope he does .... and the other pirates as well.  :D



We can only play with the cards being dealt. :D ;)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: datder on December 19, 2014, 08:39:45 PM
Price: there are many reasons for the $1398.00 number announced.
   1) They simply can not be sold for less then $1200 as it will be unethical and disrespectful to OPPO, it has to cost more then their PM-1.

(http://patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/tumblr_l4jzztUsLi1qa0ioeo1_500.jpg)


Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Sweded on December 19, 2014, 10:11:06 PM
The PM-1 was a disappointing listen with its rather dull and unengaging sound. And the pads didn't work at all with my ears creating irritation from the start.
I much rather take the LCD-2 fazors even though the weight is too high.
This mod is needed for this headphone IMO just like a mod is needed for the HD800, perhaps even more so.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: MuppetFace on December 20, 2014, 02:13:16 AM
The PM-1 was a disappointing listen with its rather dull and unengaging sound. And the pads didn't work at all with my ears creating irritation from the start.
I much rather take the LCD-2 fazors even though the weight is too high.
This mod is needed for this headphone IMO just like a mod is needed for the HD800, perhaps even more so.

The question begs to be asked, then: can this mod do anything about that unengaging sound? You can tinker with the FR and make it flat, but can you improve the micro dynamics, resolution, "PRaT," whatever-you-want-to-call-it? Some are saying that even at the end of the day, the Oppo driver is still the Oppo driver.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Hands on December 20, 2014, 04:17:45 AM
There are definitely areas that can be improved with mods, but the drivers still have some limitations. I'm not sure the enclosure is ideal, but the stock damping material and configuration OPPO used certainly doesn't do the driver many favors. Now, I'm going to wait on the final iteration of this particular mod before I put in further thoughts, but resolution (in certain ways) and soundstage at the very least seem to be improved over stock PM-1/2.

I probably just like a bit of extra bass and am sure the way I tuned it as such factors into this, but I think the PM-2 I modded myself sounds more dynamic than stock...certainly more engaging/fun.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Marvey on December 20, 2014, 05:35:37 AM
To get back on topic, Alex generously sent me a revised version of the headphones. I am using Gilberto's measurement rig for this. My own V2 measurement looks essentially looks like first revision, except this has sharper peak (so I am not going to bother to post it.) I think Gilberto's measurement rig is more reflective of the sound.

Again, different rigs, different results - just like Jude says in his Head-Fi profile. Closed rigs will cause certain peaks from standing waves within the volume of the cup against the head. Whether or how this effect is heard is debatable.

The FR really is fantastic. It is almost perfect to my ears. Last one was was just a tad bright and lacked some heft in bass. This is just right.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: ultrabike on December 20, 2014, 05:42:26 AM
Awesome Marv! Looks like the treble rolls up a bit there. Oppos seem to have that limitation. I think I heard them that way too...

EDIT: Would have to give them a new listen to check out the latest mod iteration.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: wnmnkh on December 20, 2014, 05:44:43 AM
To get back on topic, Alex generously sent me a revised version of the headphones. I am using Gilberto's measurement rig for this. My own V2 measurement looks essentially looks like first revision, except this has sharper peak (so I am not going to bother to post it.) I think Gilberto's measurement rig is more reflective of the sound.

Again, different rigs, different results - just like Jude says in his Head-Fi profile. Closed rigs will cause certain peaks from standing waves within the volume of the cup against the head. Whether or how this effect is heard is debatable.

The FR really is fantastic. It is almost perfect to my ears. Last one was was just a tad bright and lacked some heft in bass. This is just right.

Wow.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: OJneg on December 20, 2014, 05:47:34 AM
I'm curious to give these a more in-depth listen. I thought they sounded great at the SD meet.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Marvey on December 20, 2014, 05:48:40 AM
I'm curious to give these a more in-depth listen. I thought they sounded great at the SD meet.

I'll ask Alex if I can show it off to you guys. I think you will be fair.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: kothganesh on December 20, 2014, 06:01:25 AM
Gosh, that looks very good....Have you mateys listened to various genres on the Pm-X? How well do you think it does with rock? Thanks.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: ultrabike on December 20, 2014, 06:25:53 AM
Mmmm. I can see some similarities with the stock (Sachu's) PM-1, but the peak at 10k maybe a little more controlled.

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1981.0;attach=8280;image)

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1590.0;attach=6430;image)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: zerodeefex on December 20, 2014, 06:29:00 AM
Wait, you said you used Gilberto's rig? Why does it look EXACTLY like pervnets results? I thought his methodology was just adapted from Ultrabike's, not just copied?
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Anaxilus on December 20, 2014, 06:33:40 AM
Gosh, that looks very good....Have you mateys listened to various genres on the Pm-X? How well do you think it does with rock? Thanks.

Last ones I heard were pretty soft in the kicks drums and snares. Strings (even electric guitar) didn't have that energetic and clean bite. Definitely more of a laid back, relaxed tempo type of driver rather than aggressive and energetic. I'd recommend what I have heard so far for more relaxed jazz and acoustic genres and people not interested in extreme resolution or micro detail. Even though the clarity and soundstage has improved quite a bit over stock, the driver still has it's character to me.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: anetode on December 20, 2014, 07:04:26 AM
Awesome Marv! Looks like the treble rolls up a bit there. Oppos seem to have that limitation. I think I heard them that way too...

Still looking for an ortho with good treble extension without hardness, seems to be either one or the other. Having just had a chance to hear the PM-2 loaner though, I'm fairly impressed. Except for a little bit of muddiness in the mids it sounds pretty good. Laid back, though not to the level of an Audeze, and good bass extension/definition, if not slam. If the PM-X were sanely priced I would have to seriously consider them.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: ultrabike on December 20, 2014, 07:15:36 AM
Still looking for an ortho with good treble extension without hardness, seems to be either one or the other. Having just had a chance to hear the PM-2 loaner though, I'm fairly impressed. Except for a little bit of muddiness in the mids it sounds pretty good. Laid back, though not to the level of an Audeze, and good bass extension/definition, if not slam. If the PM-X were sanely priced I would have to seriously consider it.

Yup. It's not a bad can, even unmodded IMO.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: kothganesh on December 20, 2014, 07:42:03 AM
Last ones I heard were pretty soft in the kicks drums and snares. Strings (even electric guitar) didn't have that energetic and clean bite. Definitely more of a laid back, relaxed tempo type of driver rather than aggressive and energetic. I'd recommend what I have heard so far for more relaxed jazz and acoustic genres and people not interested in extreme resolution or micro detail. Even though the clarity and soundstage has improved quite a bit over stock, the driver still has it's character to me.

Thanks Anax...I've found very few orthodynamics that give me the visceral kick that the HE 6 does...
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: anetode on December 20, 2014, 07:45:39 AM
Thanks Anax...I've found very few orthodynamics that give me the visceral kick that the HE 6 does...

HE-400, the Abyss, some select LCDs.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: MuppetFace on December 20, 2014, 07:49:04 AM
The Abyss has the best low end of any ortho in my opinion.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: kothganesh on December 20, 2014, 07:59:06 AM
Anetode, the He 400 probably "kicked" the hardest but the rest of it was not bearable to me... Not heard the Abyss
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: anetode on December 20, 2014, 08:14:48 AM
Anetode, the He 400 probably "kicked" the hardest but the rest of it was not bearable to me... Not heard the Abyss

Both of those headphones are very much a Devil's bargain. The HE-400 is the rabid Cerberus which greets you, but then you have to pay quite the toll to get a ride into the Abyss.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Hands on December 20, 2014, 06:09:41 PM
I still need to ship back the AZ I'm testing so I can try out the latest/final revision. Just been very busy lately, but hoping to get that done soon...
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: MuZo2 on May 08, 2015, 09:36:17 AM
Wait, you have a pet bear? AWESOME  headbang ! Is that a common pet in Russia?

(http://img.swifty.com/slides/2/6/1/8/4/2/2618427017/40146fdf96470f158a2bfc9a12856d86eb33c1d4.jpeg)
(http://img.swifty.com/slides/2/2/1/0/9/7/2210972204/27b694132f82d13656133242634f1a10b3434e85.jpeg)
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Gilly87 on May 13, 2015, 03:03:55 PM
 headbang

Want bear

I auditioned these at CanJam SoCal a few weeks ago. The tonal balance and soundstage were very nice; it's a laid-back style listen, as some have mentioned, but the balance and overall realism were some of the best I've heard in any can, ortho or no.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Anaxilus on May 13, 2015, 06:26:43 PM
Can you describe what attributes you would include in 'realism'? Because the Oppos are rather unreal to me with their blurry softness and lack of clarity with zero transient resolution. I've just never heard an instrument or concert that sounds like that myself.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: keanex on June 30, 2015, 02:29:36 AM
Well this was a shitshow of a thread.

With that said, got these in my hands, well on my ears, and so far I love the tonality of acoustic guitars. Fleetwood Mac's "Never Going Back" taken from a needledrop of Dr. Roberts 2011 rip was wonderful. Good PRAT and tonality. Listening to Jamie xx's album "In Colour" now and they're sounding pretty great so far though as others said, I would like more bass slam.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Marvey on June 30, 2015, 03:43:41 AM
Yeah, definitely turned into a shitshow...


More seriously, I do like the PM-X quite a bit. Alex has worked hard on tuning these, and he's really ameliorated to a large extent the negative aspects of the stock PM-1/2 that folks have here have noted - especially with the current iteration which I believe you have your hands on. Excellent tonality.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: keanex on June 30, 2015, 03:50:19 AM
Yeah, definitely turned into a shitshow...


More seriously, I do like the PM-X quite a bit. Alex has worked hard on tuning these, and he's really ameliorated to a large extent the negative aspects of the stock PM-1/2 that folks have here have noted - especially with the current iteration which I believe you have your hands on. Excellent tonality.

I really like them so far but I need more time to properly evaluate them, so far so good though.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Hands on June 30, 2015, 03:56:43 AM
There are newer threads for the PMx2. They're all, um, entertaining. :) Great headphone, though. Excellent neutrality.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: ultrabike on June 30, 2015, 05:16:23 AM
Well. I did hear them again and liked them yet again. If there is any Oppo QA issues or product variations, Alex is going out of his way to make sure this is not the case in his modded cans, and further refines them.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on June 30, 2015, 07:15:02 AM
   Ok, I have been planning to write this for quite a while but mods were still not finalized and simply didn't want anyone to think I am kissing arses. The final PMx2 much to my own surprise came out to be a huge collective effort.
   Within the last year or so quite a few pirates not only had to evaluate pre-production PMx2 sets but somehow also patiently managed dealing with some of my personal qualities. I don't even know of any other headphone going through such a long and painful for everyone involved "beta" testing process.  Hard to believe but Hans030390 tested five of my sets, Ojneg four different ones, Ultrabike three, Marvey two and even Tyll agreed to measure one.
   I seriously can't count all of you giving me valuable feedback at the meets but can honestly say every single word of criticism was noted and analyzed, yep even those from Anaxilus. Never thought this would become such a challenge and I mean not only making the mods but managing my relationship with community.
   Endlessly appreciate all the help I got from you pirates, this was and continues to be one of the greatest lessons of my life and I am thankful it's happening here, not some other place  :ship:
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: songmic on July 06, 2015, 09:33:49 AM
What is the impedance and sensitivity of the modded PMx2? Are they the same as stock, or have they been changed too?

My amp can drive efficient low and high impedance headphones (Grados, TH00 or Senns) well but struggles with not-so-efficient power hungry orthos. I would really love to try out this headphone, but the only thing keeping me from doing so is the fact that it's a planar.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Marvey on July 06, 2015, 05:05:58 PM
AZ's headphones really like powah to come alive.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: OJneg on July 06, 2015, 05:10:22 PM
Bit less sensitive than stock PM2 according to my ears and volume knob. Makes sense; adding damping can never boost sensitivity
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Colgin on July 06, 2015, 06:12:49 PM
Bit less sensitive than stock PM2 according to my ears and volume knob. Makes sense; adding damping can never boost sensitivity

These were my impressions as well when I had time with the PMx2 (which is really excellent IMHO).  They were a bit less sensitive than my stock PM-2 and I needed to turn the volume dial a bit to have equivalent loudness. However, notwithstanding this, the PMx2 can still be driven off of, and IMO sounded pretty damn good from, portables. One of the virtues of the stock PM-2 is that they can be driven by and sound good from just a smartphone or any DAP. The con is that they don't scale a lot, although I think some of the more powerful amps -- e.g. Rag; GS-X -- did give the stock PM-2 more impact and sound less limp (at least to my ears) albeit did not really improve soundstage too much. For me the PMx2, while benefitting from better upstream gear, still sounded very nice out of just my Iphone. For me this is a real virtue since I take my PM-2 outside my home regularly and in those instances just use an Iphone or Ipod and don't even bother with a portable/transportable amps.

I do think the sub bass impact from the PMx2 though may be a little less than the stock PM-2 without proper amping. So, depending on your musical preferences the PMx2 may, in fact, require "moar power" as Marv said. But for my purposes it sounded good with everything, although I particularly liked it on the Rag/Yggy combo I heard.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on July 06, 2015, 07:08:36 PM
Sensitivity is just about the same for stock PM-2s and Audio Zenith PMx2s and mine does not have more damping, though it is distributed quite a bit differently.
   In my opinion the differences we could be hearing are:
  sensitivity on stock varies by a couple of dBs and in some cases by up to a dB within the same set while I try keeping it pretty much the same for all sets, maybe 0.5 db between different ones but overall it sits at the lowest sensitivity of the stock PM-2s. To be more precise originals are between 101-103dB while mine are all around 101dB.   
  more neutral FR allows you to listen a bit more loud in general. When nothing is sticking out of linearity to disturb your senses, you would just subconsciously feel safe turning it up a bit higher. Both original PM-2 and my PMx2 can be easily driven by a typical smartphone to uncomfortable listening levels and I personally never turn volume on my Note 3 all the way up listening to either of them.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Colgin on July 06, 2015, 08:18:03 PM
Sensitivity is just about the same for stock PM-2s and Audio Zenith PMx2s and mine does not have more damping, though it is distributed quite a bit differently.
   In my opinion the differences we could be hearing are:
  sensitivity on stock varies by a couple of dBs and in some cases by up to a dB within the same set while I try keeping it pretty much the same for all sets, maybe 0.5 db between different ones but overall it sits at the lowest sensitivity of the stock PM-2s. To be more precise originals are between 101-103dB while mine are all around 101dB.   
  more neutral FR allows you to listen a bit more loud in general. When nothing is sticking out of linearity to disturb your senses, you would just subconsciously feel safe turning it up a bit higher.Both original PM-2 and my PMx2 can be easily driven by a typical smartphone to uncomfortable listening levels and I personally never turn volume on my Note 3 all the way up listening to either of them.

Thanks for the clarification, Alex.  I agree from experience with your statement in bold about listening levels. The important corollary to that is with well-balanced FR there may not be as much need/desire to try to crank up the cans (and thus preserve your hearing more long-term).  I found that with the PMx2 due to the evenness and smoothness of FR, as well as greater soundstage and sense of space as compared to the stock PM-2, I could enjoy listening at lower levels without feeling the need to increase volume to try to compensate for low levels in certain frequency bands.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Schopenhauer on July 07, 2015, 04:23:58 AM
Btw. Congrats, Alex, for having the PMx2 included in Tyll's TOTL shootout! I'm really excited to hear about how it'll perform with the different setups he'll have running.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: AZ on July 07, 2015, 06:02:45 AM
   Thanks man and vouching for me there, much appreciated. It certainly feels great to have some of the effort being paid off. I just hope this would lead to a much cheaper way for many more people to enjoy what I feel to be the right sound. Something I have been working on for almost ten years now, DSP correction algorithms.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: Schopenhauer on July 07, 2015, 07:10:08 AM
My pleasure. Although I've yet to hear it, given the impressions from notable sources and the measurements, the PMx2 has my attention. It's the sort of project I want to see succeed.  :)p6
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: rschoi_75 on July 09, 2015, 09:50:50 PM
I auditioned the PMx2's at The Show Newport this year (along with the HE-1000, Abyss, and Ether). They are as good as people have been saying, and I actually purchased a pair for myself in June. 
In my opinion, they will go toe to toe with any totl neutral/balanced sounding headphone out there, and even be the preferred choice for some people after taking all the factors into consideration (sound quality, price, and comfort).

Now since this is my first post here, I'm not posting any charts or quantifying my opinions with data, and I'm not a member of the Hifi cult of personality, please take this post for what you will.
I'm just your target demographic who spent their own cash. I personally chose this over the other options I heard, because this one sounded the best to me.
Title: Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
Post by: imac2much on July 14, 2015, 12:40:15 PM
I'm a little confused which thread to post my questions in (this one or AZ's modded PM-2 thread), but it looks like this thread has the most recent updates.

Has anyone had an extensive listen with the production PMx2's (preferably not in meet conditions)?  I am wondering how they compare to stock and modded HD800's.  They are around the same price and I am interested in both.  I know that stock HD800's won't sound great with my HA-1, but I'm hoping Anax 3.0 would rectify that.

Thanks!