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Author Topic: DAC Noise Floor Modulation  (Read 1890 times)

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ToasterStreudel

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DAC Noise Floor Modulation
« on: April 17, 2013, 03:59:59 AM »

I have this shitty DAC right now which will go unnamed out of shame, so I've been looking at JA's measurements and the ODAC as replacements.  I thought the ODAC would be perfect given its measurements, but this: http://www.diyhifi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2229&start=30#p46715 mentions noise floor modulation of the ES9023 chip.  Is this due to this author's implementation or would it affect the ODAC as well?  I'm not really qualified to discuss such things because I have virtually zero knowledge of DAC design.  But I'd like to know if this is an actual issue (the guy seems to be of questionable credibility) before making a purchase.
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ToasterStreudel

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Re: DAC Noise Floor Modulation
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2013, 04:10:54 AM »

Thanks in advance.  I certainly don't know how to measure this, but other members might.
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Tari

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Re: DAC Noise Floor Modulation
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2013, 06:15:02 AM »

ThorstenL (Kue Yang Wang or whatever) does have a bit of a cult of personality over there, but he is very knowledgable.  He designs gear for AMR and designed the ifi units.  And they outmeasure the ODAC.
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ToasterStreudel

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Re: DAC Noise Floor Modulation
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2013, 11:21:10 PM »

So noise modulation is a major problem?  It doesn't sound like that would allow it to remain transparent.  I didn't really consider the iDAC because it requires drivers and meaures very similarly except for jitter, because Loesch used asynch USB.
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firev1

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Re: DAC Noise Floor Modulation
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2013, 07:01:07 AM »

From what I can see from the various Jtest plots here and of nwavdouche's site. The ODAC does not suffer from 9023's noise modulation problem. Should be good to get though the consensus is that it does suffer from power supply issues.
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ToasterStreudel

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Re: DAC Noise Floor Modulation
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2013, 03:00:08 PM »

Thanks guys!
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AstralStorm

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Re: DAC Noise Floor Modulation
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2013, 11:44:00 AM »

Pity I can't tell anything about ES9032, because the goddamn manufacturer puts their datasheets behind a "Sales agent" wall (and Ismosys is PITA to deal with according to friends), while a random implementation might have many unrelated issues.

I can tell though that such delta-sigma DACs are quite finicky in implementation and it's quite easy to mess it up. Just have slightly not enough bypassing on the analog supply and here you have your noise modulation, just as ordered.
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ToasterStreudel

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Re: DAC Noise Floor Modulation
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2013, 01:36:14 AM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Stereophile's measurements http://www.stereophile.com/content/ifi-audio-idac-amp-iusbpower-usb-da-processor-amp-outboard-power-supply-measurements seem to indicate that the ODAC outmeasures the iDAC with the exception of jitter.
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firev1

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Re: DAC Noise Floor Modulation
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2013, 04:31:26 AM »

Indeed, it does seem worse than the ODAC in terms of IMD(odac uses a log scale though) at least(the rest are not directly comparable I think). Though the THD spectrum also looks worse, the ifi dac has minimal odd order harmonics unlike the the ODAC. For the 3X the price though, this seems to be rather poor showing.

Assuming the ear FFT theory is correct though, the IFI should be subjectively better sounding than the odac just basing on jitter and THD. I'm just speculating though so don't take my word for it :P

Perhaps their power supply and spdif solution may perform better though especially with the rave comments from fellow locals here.

Edit: Why bother with the odac, just get the Modi already if you are not willing to deal with PS and want lower jitter.
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ToasterStreudel

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Re: DAC Noise Floor Modulation
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2013, 08:30:22 PM »


As firev1 said, these aren't directly comparable because JA uses a linear scale.  But I couldn't help utilizing my seriously lacking photoshop skills.
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