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Author Topic: Liquid Lightning MK II LL2 Impressions  (Read 18631 times)

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Anaxilus.

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Re: Liquid Lightning MK II LL2 Impressions
« Reply #50 on: April 24, 2013, 08:05:32 AM »

Anyone with something valuable to contribute doesn't need to fear anything.  Anyone who talks out of their ass does.  If you aren't that comfortable sharing something, maybe it's not that valuable?  Do you really think 100% of that 95% need a voice?  What percentage of that 95% would you say are already well represented on Head-fi?

Sorry, more opinions do not equal better opinions.  The last time quantity=quality was when Stalin used humans to deplete German ammunition stockpiles.

If you are familiar with the wide discrepancy HD800 impressions give, the 009 is not so different.  It's just fewer and farther between than the HD800 and so are alternative amps solutions for it.
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Hix

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Re: Liquid Lightning MK II LL2 Impressions
« Reply #51 on: April 24, 2013, 08:08:25 AM »

Just got the CALLMKII.  After letting it warm up for about an hour, I did some quick listening comparisons to the SRM-323s.

I think the best way generalize the differences I am hearing is "control."  Basically the LL seems to handle the 007-mkIs with much more authority.  Personally it is the bass that really stands out to me.  It manages to be both cleaner and more present at the same time.

Once things settle down later I plan on doing a longer dedicated listening comparison and will write up my impressions but needless to say I will be listening out of the LL and not the 323s as I get back to programming.

Seems to me like the control would be a natural result of the increased power of the LL, not necessarily a trait of the amp itself. The 323s is often touted as Stax's best un-modded amp (which isn't really saying much), but usually in the context of the 009, which doesn't need as much juice.

Looking forward to seeing your impressions, if I ever had the means to afford a high end electrostatic amp it would be LL all the way simply because it's solid state anyway.

Whether the dog-pile happens depends upon how someone presents themselves. If people can qualify their reasons for liking or disliking something, especially in a detailed way and in a comparative sense, I don't think they have anything to be worried about. Generally, the dog-piles happen when people come in and try to show off how smart they or and promote a certain agenda rather than to truly contribute. Honestly, I'm really happen when some random person comes in and says I heard X and I like/hate it for X and Y reasons. How do you guys feel?

So again, this is going to be a problem to most people who are uninitiated to the history that most of you guys have. It's like trying to approach rabid dogs with a ten feet pole: who knows if the dogs are going to just chew that pole up and go straight to biting your arm off. I think that attitude turns off about 95% of the population, so you'll always be dealing with the usual 5% that continue to contribute regularly. (I'm guessing with these percentages based on your user registration and frequent and active user base but I don't believe I'm far off.) I already see that this is the preferred engagement by the active user base anyway but always wonder about some of those in the 95% that really do have something valuable to contribute.

I don't contribute much, but I visit CS most days as it's a valuable resource and a way to cut through the crap on Head-fi. That it's mostly the same nucleus of active posters is to it's credit, as opinions are easier to pin down as either trustworthy or to be taken with a grain of salt.

The dog piles help stop this place from turning into mini-HF, which the internet really doesn't need.
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MuppetFace

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Re: Liquid Lightning MK II LL2 Impressions
« Reply #52 on: April 24, 2013, 10:45:46 AM »

I think the 323 gets the title of best un-modded Stax amp currently in production from some people, but personally I think the 717 un-modded is a better amp for the SR-007. I scored mine for $1k and honestly, it's by far the best solution for driving the flagship Stax I've encountered for under $2k.
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shipsupt

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Re: Liquid Lightning MK II LL2 Impressions
« Reply #53 on: April 24, 2013, 10:48:47 AM »

I've not heard the 323, but using the 717 vs. say the GES is night and day with the 007.  The 007 clearly outperforms the GES, mostly because of better control from top to bottom.

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Hix

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Re: Liquid Lightning MK II LL2 Impressions
« Reply #54 on: April 24, 2013, 12:03:30 PM »

I think the 323 gets the title of best un-modded Stax amp currently in production from some people, but personally I think the 717 un-modded is a better amp for the SR-007. I scored mine for $1k and honestly, it's by far the best solution for driving the flagship Stax I've encountered for under $2k.

Interesting! So it would be better with the SR-009 then too?

The balanced inputs are nearly worth $1k alone, but alas the average seems to be about $1300-1400 (twice as much as the 323s)
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MuppetFace

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Re: Liquid Lightning MK II LL2 Impressions
« Reply #55 on: April 24, 2013, 12:55:58 PM »

Interesting! So it would be better with the SR-009 then too?

The balanced inputs are nearly worth $1k alone, but alas the average seems to be about $1300-1400 (twice as much as the 323s)

The SR-009 is an interesting beast. I find it's less demanding than the SR-007 as far as power goes, but its signature carries a very different set of synergistic considerations. For instance the BHSE and KGSS have no problems driving it from a control standpoint, but it just sounds too thin and brittle for my liking. Some folks I've talked to actually preferred the modded 727 to the BHSE w/ the SR-009.

I ended up using my 717 more w/ the SR-009 and SR-Omega as a result, whereas I used the KGSS primarily when it came to the SR-007. I still enjoyed the 717 + SR-007, but the extra energy from the KGSS helped to wake it up more. Similarly, when I got my LL1 I felt that the SR-009 and Omega sounded best on it, whereas the SR-007 was just a little bit too polite (tho not as much as on the demo unit I heard). The 717 is still a good option for the SR-009 under $2k in my opinion. I'd probably stick to it until I could afford an Electra or LL.

DIY KGSS / KGSSHV might be to some folks' liking, but personally I don't like the synergy w/ the SR-009. The SR-007 really loves that power tho.

Going back to the LL2, I found it was more lively sounding compared to the more laid back LL1. It sounded even better w/ the SR-007 as a result. I was worried that the synergy between it and the SR-009 and Omega might be hindered in turn, but thankfully this wasn't the case. In particular I found that the treble developed a silky smooth quality once the amp was left on for a while, something Marv noted as well, and it didn't sound too bright or too brittle w/ the other Stax.

So really the LL2 is also one of the most versatile 'stat amps I've encountered so far.
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s1

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Re: Liquid Lightning MK II LL2 Impressions
« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2013, 05:33:35 PM »

Quote (selected)
Sorry for getting off track. Back on topic with a question. Is this LL2MKII making pit stops in the Bay Area? Anyone here willing to let me listen to this for an hr or so (with appropriate SR-007 or SR-009) in exchange for the poison of your choice? Happy to bring beer, wine, scotch, tea, whatever ails ya. I wonder if my only listening experience with the SR-009s (and an older amp from Justin) was just an anomaly.

If you can ask Raif thru Alex to ship the LL2 to your place I would be happy to bring my earspeakers and maybe a few more toys.  ;)
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twizzleraddict

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Re: Liquid Lightning MK II LL2 Impressions
« Reply #57 on: April 25, 2013, 12:56:44 AM »

Anyone with something valuable to contribute doesn't need to fear anything.  Anyone who talks out of their ass does.  If you aren't that comfortable sharing something, maybe it's not that valuable?  Do you really think 100% of that 95% need a voice?  What percentage of that 95% would you say are already well represented on Head-fi?

Not refuting this point. I actually agree with this sentiment.

If you are familiar with the wide discrepancy HD800 impressions give, the 009 is not so different.  It's just fewer and farther between than the HD800 and so are alternative amps solutions for it.

This is why the interest. I'm going to chalk up my previous listening experience with the SR-009 to bad synergy. Source files were top notch and through an older Mark Levinson DAC. If even a highly touted amp like the LL2 and SR-009 doesn't float my boat, then it will be just a matter of my personal preference more than any technical capability of both pieces of engineering. Will hope to form some opinions at a meet in the near future. Then again, my preference does tend towards the warmer side of things than neutrality so a lot of  poo gear may tickle my fancy.


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raif

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Re: Liquid Lightning MK II LL2 Impressions
« Reply #58 on: April 25, 2013, 06:23:20 AM »

Ok, here are my impressions.  First time writing long form on the interwebz in quite awhile so please excuse the rustiness.  I will be putting this up on head-fi as well.

tl;dr  => The LLmkII has the juice to take control of the SR007mkI and make it sing.

Drawn-Out Impressions:

I have spent a few hours listening to the LLmkII and I would have to say that I am quite impressed with it.  It is a great looking amp and I feel that it has the power to unlock the full potential of the Stax OIImkI headphones.  For the comparison, I listened to a few of my tried and true "test tracks" and then just started going through my music library.

I am not sure if it is expectation bias* or not but I have always felt that I could hear the slight bass hump around 50 hz for the OII and was bugged by the peak at 10khz.  When I first got a chance to actually sit down and listen to the OIIs in a quiet setting, it was when I purchased them about a year ago alongside the SRM-323s.  The speed and precision of the headphones was like I remembered from my meet impressions but the low bass seemed absent and there was a crowded sense to the upper treble.  The treble seemed unnatural to me.  It felt like there was too much information in the highest register which I attributed to the rising response approaching 10khz.  The best I could describe it was that the treble emphasis led to an accentuation of every minute detail in the high frequencies giving the sound a little more brittleness.
 
Enter the LLmkII.  The first thing I noticed right away was the bass.  As I stated in my first impressions, it was simultaneously more present and pronounced and at the same time cleaner and more precise.  Tracks that I normally would pull out the Paradox for in order to get a more impact and low end extension now rock just as hard on the Stax.  The LL seemed to greatly lesson the issue I had with the OII through the 323, which is that even though the low bass frequency response is only 3-6db down, the 50hz hump would mask its presence and therefore, my ability to enjoy the music.

The second thing I noticed with the LLmkII was the treble.  I actually found myself turning up the LL louder than I would the 323 because the uncomfortable upper treble didn't become a limiting factor.  It felt like the "busyness" or congestion was lifted from the upper register.

The two ends of the frequency spectrum stood out the most from just a basic comparison.  As I started to do a little more back and forth between the two amps comparing my test tracks I started to feel like the individual instruments and sounds had more body and depth on the LL.

The best way I could summarize was that the 323 sounded "thin" in comparison.

Unfortunately I do not have any other "uber" stax amps around for comparison so I can't really draw any conclusions on that front.  That being said, I think the LLmkII passed the defacto "can it drive the OII?" Stax test with flying colors.


Notes from the listening session:

Diamonds on the Souls of Her Shoes - Paul Simon: Graceland
This has been my go to track for sometime now.  I am very familiar with how it sounds and have heard it enough times on enough systems that it acts as a great reference for me on how a piece of gear sounds.  On the LLmkII the vocal harmonies of LBM and Simon sounded alive and real.  The rhythm section and drums had plenty of punch and the horns managed to not sound as processed as they can on some systems.

Man in the Mirror - Michael Jackson: Bad
This is another familiarity track.  A big test for me is to listen as each layer is added and see if the sound becomes compressed.  The LL managed to maintain a sense of spaciousn ess throughout the cresendo whereas on the 323s it coul be anti-climatic.  Another simple test here is the bass.  When the synth bass line comes in it is punchy and tight.  The 323s did not provide the weight it needed and tended to mush up the presentation.  Not so with the LL.

Queensryche - Operation Mindcrime
This is actually a new addition to my test tracks.  This recording is not mastered very dynamically and can easily sound flat on a lot of playback systems.  The usual "audiophile" frequency response of tilted treble and rolled off bass totally kills the recording.  This was one of the albums that had me reaching for the Paradox and questioning the Stax investment.  With the LLmkII, I actually prefer listening to this album on the OII now.

Gear:

I am using a Metric Halo LIO=8 with balanced outputs => LLmkII, and single ended into the 323s.

* innerfidelity measurements
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Liquid Lightning MK II LL2 Impressions
« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2013, 07:38:37 AM »

Great stuff Raif!  Agree with a lot of what you have to say.  Exactly why the 323 never did it for me.  That thinness and flat sound from a lack of dynamic response.  Not to mention a lack of ultimate transparency and resolution.
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading - Lao Tzu
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