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Author Topic: do balanced amps have lower distortion?  (Read 1814 times)

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Armaegis

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do balanced amps have lower distortion?
« on: March 10, 2013, 08:32:38 AM »

I stumbled upon an interesting post here by Dan Lavry regarding balanced headphones:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/450408/balanced-senns-and-lavry#post_6097456

The whole thing's a good read, but here's the quote that got my attention:
Quote (selected)
In fact, a truly balanced driver circuit can reduce (cancel) EVEN harmonics by a few dB. This is not at all a well known fact, but it is an easy to prove fact. That does not make balance a necessary thing - one can make a very good unbalanced driver, but it is worth noting, as another possible cause. (It is unfortunate that a balanced driver does not do a thing for ODD harmonics).

Any comments from you guys who know far more about this than I do?
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Do you think there may be an acoustic leak from the jack hole? ~Tyll Hertsens

Not sure if I like stuffing one hole or both holes. Tending toward one hole since both holes seems kinda ghey ~Purrin

AstralStorm

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Re: do balanced amps have lower distortion?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2013, 12:06:06 PM »

The idea is that both sides of the balanced amp (positive and negative) generate the same harmonics, so they will cancel out. The odd order ones won't, because they're shifted in phase compared to the base signal - so you'd either cancel noise and even order, or just odd order and add noise. Generally the former is better.

It's the same principle as push-pull design, but can be done without the switching and associated crossover distortion, because both ends are running all the time - and it produces less added odd order if elements are very well matched - because it's not necessarily dependent on timing. However since nothing is perfect, there will be some remaining noise and distortion.

The best way to get rid of harmonic distortion is a current mirror (preferably two of those in a balanced configuration), but again, nothing is perfect. Good opamps have these already anyway and integrated is way better than discrete at matching, which is required for that part of a circuit.

If you require math, go read a nice EE book, there are a few around. There's e.g. one presentation by Pete Millet from HeadRoom floating around on the net.
Do note that when he says "push-pull creates more odd order distortion" it's actually relative - they typically aren't too much worse than single ended at this.
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Tyll Hertsens

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Re: do balanced amps have lower distortion?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2013, 02:55:56 PM »

The easy way to visualise this is by understanding the gain curve.

In an amp with a lot of even order distortion the gain curve bends in only one direction. In one with odd order distortion, the gain curve is "S" shaped.

Imagine the even order gain curve that only curves in one direction. In a balanced amp, the signal is mirror imaged through two amps with the same curve. When driving a load together, the curve cancels.

I know that isn't a complete enough description, but if you get it, you will.

 :)p13

I think I'll just shut up now.
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Armaegis

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Re: do balanced amps have lower distortion?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2013, 06:31:42 PM »

Quote (selected)
The odd order ones won't, because they're shifted in phase compared to the base signal
Quote (selected)
with odd order distortion, the gain curve is "S" shaped.

Thanks guys, that makes perfectly good sense to me.

Quote (selected)
If you require math, go read a nice EE book
I teach high school math and am trying to write my doctorate in ME... I'm going to avoid as many textbooks as possible thanks   :)p17



How about Jan Meier's concept of "active balanced ground"?... http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/grounds.htm
Would that be effective in taking out even order harmonics? Or any other advantages/disadvantages present in that configuration?

I built one myself as a sort of proof of concept thing and I thought it sounded good, but it really wasn't much more than a fancy cmoy with jiggered inputs.
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Do you think there may be an acoustic leak from the jack hole? ~Tyll Hertsens

Not sure if I like stuffing one hole or both holes. Tending toward one hole since both holes seems kinda ghey ~Purrin

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Re: do balanced amps have lower distortion?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2013, 07:57:30 PM »

Active balanced ground is an active ground, which has negative feedback applied to it to remove the traces of the signal from it - therefore better than standard active ground. Usually like any active ground it's just a source of noise and waste of power, but can allow making other good tradeoffs, e.g. higher power, higher current or operation from less filtered power supply.
Normal grounds are usually better.
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Anaxilus.

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Re: do balanced amps have lower distortion?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2013, 07:59:18 PM »

The proper term for balanced as it was used for a long time before headphiles went crazy involves CMR (Common Mode Rejection). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-mode_rejection_ratio

This is different than running separate amps and inverting signals to reduce noise for each channel and bridging their power.

Neither topology is a guarantee that one will sound better than the other.  Understanding the theory is helpful but there are tons of other factors to consider that may even be more important.  Just remember, all designs are compromises and no 'benefit' ever comes for free.


Don't forget, the O2 has very low distortion, so....






« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 08:22:20 PM by Analixus »
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Armaegis

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Re: do balanced amps have lower distortion?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2013, 09:10:46 PM »

Neither topology is a guarantee that one will sound better than the other.  Understanding the theory is helpful but there are tons of other factors to consider that may even be more important.  Just remember, all designs are compromises and no 'benefit' ever comes for free.


Don't forget, the O2 has very low distortion, so....

I suppose I was more just looking for opinions on Meier's "active balanced ground" topology. Plenty of hubbub regarding active grounds and "balanced" operation, but not much on Jan Meier's implementation.

...and I really don't care about the O2. The guy spouts a lot of tech, but he made his name by trashing others and obfuscating it with charts that most people really don't understand but will lap it up anyways because it's "science". I don't think I'm the only one here who feels this way though.
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Do you think there may be an acoustic leak from the jack hole? ~Tyll Hertsens

Not sure if I like stuffing one hole or both holes. Tending toward one hole since both holes seems kinda ghey ~Purrin

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Re: do balanced amps have lower distortion?
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2013, 11:21:58 PM »

Yup, I was just pointing out how chasing lower distortion might not be the answer to everything and it may have costs when you do.
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Armaegis

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Re: do balanced amps have lower distortion?
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2013, 11:32:49 PM »

Oh yeah definitely. Though this hobby seems to involve require chasing the white rabbit at least a little bit...  :)p15
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Do you think there may be an acoustic leak from the jack hole? ~Tyll Hertsens

Not sure if I like stuffing one hole or both holes. Tending toward one hole since both holes seems kinda ghey ~Purrin

Armaegis

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Re: do balanced amps have lower distortion?
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2013, 09:08:10 AM »

Another question on output power of balanced amps. I commonly see the points mentioned of higher voltage swing and slew rate, and higher power output as a result of the higher voltage... but what if each side of the amp is already running near its current limit? I see people saying that it doubles/quads the power output, but it should be the same shouldn't it?
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Do you think there may be an acoustic leak from the jack hole? ~Tyll Hertsens

Not sure if I like stuffing one hole or both holes. Tending toward one hole since both holes seems kinda ghey ~Purrin
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