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Author Topic: More Magni measurements  (Read 9621 times)

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Solderdude

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Re: More Magni measurements
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2013, 07:05:24 PM »
Quote from: imackler on January 11, 2013, 04:43:49 PM
So...I'm going to ask the stupidest question ever. I could have sworn that there was a high frequency buzz with the Magni when the wall wart was plugged into a surge protector, but none since I plugged the wall wart into, well, the wall.

Is this insane?! Is it possible? Is it testable whether there would be measurable differences? Maybe its burn in. Maybe its brain in. But I really think the Magni sounds a lot better plugged in the wall.

Now, I will duck for fear of flying objects...  Please don't take me to the woodshed over this; I am curious though.

You are plagued by common mode currents CAUSED by the surge protector (the way it is constructed).
Take out the surge protector and you solved the problem.
The same thing can happen when a mains filter is used the wrong way (not as intended) or when multiple SMPS are used in a chain of equipment.

Insane ? No ... sane
Is it possible ? ... of course otherwise it would not have happened or you would be insane.
Is it testable ?  Yes, very I even wrote a few posts about it HOW to test for this and possibly solve it.
Would there be measurable differences ? Yes VERY measurable but only in that setup under those conditions, NOT on a testbench as stand alone testsubjects as the common mode garbage might not be present.
Maybe it's burn in .. Nope. but it is used to put blame on a lot of 'phenomena'.
Brain in ?... no, but other often reported things could be though.

P.S. before you ask:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,691.75.html     reply# 14 for instance it is valid for all audio equipment connected to each other and to mains, regardless if it is digital or analog 
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paranoidroid

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Re: More Magni measurements
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2013, 07:39:59 PM »
Cool measurements, thanks for all the work. Would be curious to see the FR graph on a much more granular scale (+/- 1 or 2 db or so). Just curious  ;D
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AstralStorm

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Re: More Magni measurements
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2013, 09:05:48 PM »
Add the THD and CCIF/SMPTE IMD measurements, then some may be ready to conclude these two sound exactly the same.  ;)

(That's not to say they sound bad, even if they sound the same.)
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briskly

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Re: More Magni measurements
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2013, 11:12:06 PM »
This probably means nothing for the HE-500, but could you take a note of the output impedance on your O2?
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Solderdude

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Re: More Magni measurements
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2013, 10:16:46 AM »
Quote from: briskly on January 12, 2013, 11:12:06 PM
This probably means nothing for the HE-500, but could you take a note of the output impedance on your O2?

simple calc says the difference between 0.0001Ohm output R and 1R will only result in a 0.2dB level difference.
In case of the extremely flat impedance plot of planars in general this 0.2dB level difference will be the same for all frequencies and won't result in a change of 'grip', 'damping' or frequency response at all so not of concern for THIS particular measurement.

I would only be anal about the output R when using low impedance MA drivers.
For any other drivers above 32 Ohm the difference between 0.0000001 and 1 Ohm is non-existential.
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AstralStorm

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Re: More Magni measurements
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2013, 04:36:36 PM »
Exactly, only MA or BA drivers have that low minimum output impedance yet high min/max ratio. BA probably more than MA.
Any added crossover circuits will cause further complexities.

I always thought MA is just central or unipolar armature as described in literature - they're quite similar to dynamic drivers.
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tdockweiler

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Re: More Magni measurements
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2013, 07:36:09 PM »
Have to say that after 12 hours of use, the Magni can no longer be described as "bright". It seems that many people say this and I did too, but now..not so much.
I won't start with the burn-in nonsense, but who knows. The Q701 was awful with it out of the box. Now the Q701 sounds just how it should.

I also finally got a chance to test out different sources. It's stupid easy to "hear" what's connected. The Magi will only sound as good as what's connected to it.
The differences are about as easy to hear as they are with my Micro Amp.

Hooked up my Sansa Fuze with a LOD cable just for testing and it's really harsh in some areas. It's only because of it's crappy line out. I get this with almost any amp it's connected to, but when you use the Headphone out it's perfectly smooth. Wonder why? I wonder if using the HO to amp adds any major distortion to the sound. If so, I can't hear it. I wonder the technical reason the headphone out sounds flatter?

The Ipod Touch 2G (LOD) to Magni seems even colder than the ODAC. Doesn't seem to have any warmth at all. ODAC sounds much smoother for whatever reason.

It's interesting how the ODAC with the Magni seems to have a larger soundstage than with the Headroom Micro. With other sources, it's all about the same. Of course the Magni sounds thinner than the Micro, so maybe it's just fooling my brain somehow. It's sort of the way the Q701 sounds like it has a smaller soundstage than the K702, but it really doesn't.

I wonder if the Modi has a touch of warmth compared to the ODAC. Probably not.

Glad I got the Magni. It's good to know my Micro Amp isn't any more colored really. I think it's just as transparent, but might have a tiny touch of warmth. If so it's so small my ears can barely tell. I still remember trying to describe my amp's signature once to someone and later I found out it was the signature of my DAC (HRT MSII). Doh. I was new back then..

BTW it's amusing how many songs sound ultra thin/too trebly/annoying with the Q701 and Magni/ODAC, but it's just the recording. I always wondered how many would blame the headphone. When listening to it on the HD-650 it always makes it sound so good..I think it adds some warmth to everything, but just a little. Funny that even on the Q701 there's a ton of songs I have with bloated bass IN the recording.

Sounds like a bad idea, but the Fuze with HO to Magni is actually not too bad. Mostly due to how much warmer it is than the ODAC.

BTW I wonder why a headphone amp would need six op-amps?
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Lizardking1

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Re: More Magni measurements
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2013, 08:13:17 PM »
Decimal points in output Z and aesthetics apart, is there any advantage of one over the other? I noticed the Modi has RCA-ins and the O2 has a gain switch. Is that it?
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Marvey

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Re: More Magni measurements
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2013, 08:23:20 PM »
Quote from: tdockweiler on January 14, 2013, 07:36:09 PM
Have to say that after 12 hours of use, the Magni can no longer be described as "bright". It seems that many people say this and I did too, but now..not so much.


I don't believe in burn-in, but it does seem to settle down - keeping in mind that I have other references to compare to.
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tdockweiler

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Re: More Magni measurements
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2013, 03:13:22 AM »
I know that the Modi and ODAC are supposed to be very transparent, but I wonder which one would be a better match for the Q701.

The Magni+ODAC is nice for the Q701, but just a tiny touch of warmth would be nice. Not that I'd change either of them!
I mean like, not like the warmth of say the Clip+, because I hate that thing when using portable amps with an HD-650 (don't ask!).

I've been A/Bing the Magni to my Headroom Micro for the last few hours. Not a huge difference at all. The bass on the Micro is a little better and there's more weight to specific instruments. Sounds like a Magni that's less "cold and analytical". I don't find the Micro warm at all though, so it's a bit weird. I think it might sound like the M-Stage (never heard it), but I imagine the M-Stage is darker. I know the Micro Amp measures flat. I switched from the Asgard to the Micro Amp and have been a fan ever since. It's interesting how the M-Stage, E9 and Micro use the same opamp, but this doesn't mean much. I know for sure i'd take the Magi over the E9 any day. For the Q701 I'm not positive.

I think I need to buy the O2 and compare it to the Magni. Maybe i'll prefer the O2 or maybe not. Probably couldn't tell the difference.



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