Topic: are we on the same page? (Read 4674 times)

Anaxilus. · « **Reply #30 on:** December 02, 2012, 04:58:24 PM »

10ohm output Z does not make things bass light, wrong direction there....

Who said I was only using IEMs btw? Your missing my point entirely.

The FACT is a flat measuring device can sound either warm or bright, depending. There is no absolute to saying either perception represents a deviation from linearity as measured from both the device or the transducer! You can absolutely perceive tonal changes via altering upstream gear when the output FR stays the same. One needs to dig deeper and broaden their minds if they want to try to really understand things.

AstralStorm · « **Reply #31 on:** December 03, 2012, 03:00:40 AM »

This is true. However, these things are measurable as well, just not in frequency response. With an actual load!
(Harmonic and intermodulation behavior for instance. Sometimes even impulse response - as seen in CSDs.)
I cannot stress the last part enough - there are amps out there that measure perfect, but fail to drive anything decently. (not necessarily FR)

Inter-aural measurements are also still quite ignored - they require a decent anechoic chamber to be accurate, unlike most of the other measurements.
Unless we're talking about interchannel bleed on DACs and amps - those are relatively simple.

I haven't suggested you use IEMs only or, heck, even mostly. Really, what is it with all this trolling?

If it's not measurable, either it's not there, or you're measuring the wrong thing. Correlations with perceived differences can be derived from blinded (not necessarily doubly) trials if the cause can be isolated, reproduced and most importantly, has a dose/effect relationship.

Anaxilus. · « **Reply #32 on:** December 03, 2012, 03:55:39 AM »

Now we ARE getting on the same page.

omegakitty · « **Reply #33 on:** December 05, 2012, 04:49:31 PM »

Quote from: Analixus on December 02, 2012, 07:52:34 AM

Hate to wreck the FR discussion but similar frequency responses can still yield different tonal perceptions. Anyone w/ a decent amount of amp AB experience can tell you all about the different sounds of flat/linearity. People need to stop masturbating over FR as the final determination of sonic character. It is certainly the most obvious and perhaps biggest but not final. If someone thinks all amps and DACs that measure flat sound the same then this probably isn't the site for them.

Even slight deviations down to just .5dB can yield perceptible differences depending on where they occur.

My experience parallels yours. My Assemblage 3.1 and our proto DAC basically measure flat to DC, yet both sound quite different, most obvious in the midrange and treble. The A-weighted noise floor is significantly lower on the proto, but I don't think that alone can account for the tonal differences we heard between the two. A couple of those tests were blind.

Mr.Sneis · « **Reply #34 on:** December 05, 2012, 05:28:37 PM »

Grats on the RX-7, keep that thing alive till the wheels fall off! I think kids do stupid things to their cars because they watched too much Initial D.

On your comment about money saved and putting into the sound system for the car. I was having a convo the other day with a buddy about how the current state of affairs in the car audio market is god awful just like how the home theater receiver market is today. Vintage car audio gear from the 90's is a very real thing and gets up there in cost! The stuff you can buy off the shelf today is just econo produced junk from what we can tell.

About the headphones it is a sad state and is obvious when manufacturers keep selling the same stuff with different packaging for higher prices *ahem amperior* as new and improved. I think the AKG k1000 snippets from the engineer were spot on that there was a time when manufacturers like Sony and AKG could pour money into research that didn't necessarily have to amount to $$$ sellers. It was the big firms that were doing well elsewhere and could afford the "risk". Now they have to be able to show how an innovation in development is beneficial to their bottom line. As times have changed, businesses are being held more accountable for their profits and the effort into engineering IMO could be better than it is but we haven't really gotten too many companies to bite. I really wish that phrase "they don't make them like they used to" didn't have to be such a reality.

devouringone3 · « **Reply #35 on:** December 06, 2012, 08:17:37 AM »

I'm asking myself if the old style (pre-"i" upgrade) Grado cups were even designed around/to house/sound optimal with a John Grado driver, seeing they all initially came with HP 1000 drivers mounted in them. (Basically, I'm speculating that the John Grado driver might not have been around when the Prestige Grados, as we have known them from 1991 to 2009, were designed)

ThelostMIDrange, reading your posts and having seen the measurements of your "Gradheiser RS650", I'm thinking that you could be helping John Grado make better headphones. I'm quite intrigued by your study on Grado/Magnum cups and drivers (that I realized just yesterday you were doing), and now by what you just said about the bell and the softer wood cups and drivers working in tandem, as opposed to just having the cups shut down, be inert and hold a driver.

Author Topic: are we on the same page? (Read 4674 times)

Anaxilus.

Re: are we on the same page?

AstralStorm

Re: are we on the same page?

Anaxilus.

Re: are we on the same page?

omegakitty

Re: are we on the same page?

Mr.Sneis

Re: are we on the same page?

devouringone3

Re: are we on the same page?

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Author Topic: are we on the same page? (Read 4674 times)

omegakitty