Looking at that debate from another angle....I like to think of headphones in categories:

those used by recording engineers. they need flat lined phones ala grado hp1, senn800 etc

those used by people who primarily listen to electroinca or highly digitalized, sampled, recorded music

those who listen to 'traditional' music that involves strings, percussion, horns etc.



Unless those distinctions, or some other similar breakdown are made, I think headphones will continue to be a muddled mess of mixed up sound signatures. It's become obvious that it's super difficult to fabricate an excellent headphone that even does one of those categories well, so logic would dictate that it would be near impossible for a headphone to perform at a high level in all three.


I'm in category 3 and so a slight bump in low mid adds some warmth, a touch of 'color' i.e. tastefully located and behaved distortion, tastefully mellowed treble, and moderately forward mids and vocals suits me perfectly although they may not measure so. The trick is how to do this while keeping all the instruments sounding accurate and natural as they do 'in the real world'.

regarding the hp, some things to consider....

you say people hear them as flat (neutral) but the FR shows anything but throughout a big section of it's spectrum (big gradual hump), which is fine, that's how I believe it works -at least with grado style dynamic drivers, we hear flat but it isn't a straight line on the graph. Now what does that say about a senn that actually does have a flat line from bass through mids?  If it sounds a bit thin or off in some way, that would also makes sense................. Maybe the only reason LCD's flat line doesn't sound thin is because the planar technology is artificially thick (or thick by its nature). Maybe that's why it sounds odd as somene mentioned in another thread, it's thin and thick simultaneously.......

the hp went out of production ......... were they made with some exotic material that is no longer found on the planet? or involving some labour intensive aspect?  did they not sell?  in any case, phones like them that can span all 3 categories (i'll bet there are phones better for electronica fwiw) are rare and pricey imo which gets us back to my original thesis. There are a few excellent phones out there..... Isn't the hp the phone symphones was modeling with it's driver and alum chambers..........


here's an interesting question....what does bob ludwig use when he goes home from the studio? the same hp1000 or.........in other words, what phones do recording engineers use when they go home from the studio and put their feet up by the fire ? the same phones they used at work? I wonder............

It's stock, don't know why kids mod these. They killl in stock form.....it's the one that looks like a rocket ship/porsche body style (2nd gen). It's my 3rd one. Had a '84 gsl-se and two 2nd gen's. It's amazing, all for $2500 . to wind out the rotary engine redline. the engine has the same pitch whether it's at 2k rpm or 8k. Doesn't even sweat and actually is healthy for this engine to redline as it cleans built up carbon deposits .  these cars have perfect 50/50 weight ratio. They accelerate like a sport bike and steer like a go cart ! love 'em

so the graphs over at tylls house that show an lcd as being flat, were done with his particular compensation curves and for some reason beyond anyone's knowledge? 

As far as the hp1000 being the standard of neutrality for headphones, I like the looks of the graph and can get on board with that.

my problem is that the lcd also has a similar 'neutral' graph and it sounds totally different. Can we chalk this up to the two phones utilizing different technologies (coils vs planar).....that's really the discussion I want to have, not whether this or that phone is the pinnacle of neutrality....frankly all I care about is what sounds natural. And that also has not been discussed here, i.e. if those two terms are used together on this forum or not.....

fwiw, I have a point in mind here, i'm not just here to talk linguistics for the sake of it. I think there is something to understand about the differences of headphone technologies and how they sound/measure......

Hate to wreck the FR discussion but similar frequency responses can still yield different tonal perceptions.  Anyone w/ a decent amount of amp AB experience can tell you all about the different sounds of flat/linearity.  People need to stop masturbating over FR as the final determination of sonic character.  It is certainly the most obvious and perhaps biggest but not final.  If someone thinks all amps and DACs that measure flat sound the same then this probably isn't the site for them.


Even slight deviations down to just .5dB can yield perceptible differences depending on where they occur.