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Author Topic: RSA The Intruder  (Read 12420 times)

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wiinippongamer

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Re: RSA The Intruder
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2012, 05:15:02 PM »

Oh god, the 'audibility threshold'.  The most loaded term in audio.

That's why I said "supposed"  ;)

The purpose of my post was to ask purrin if he had corroborated those impressions from swapping components which barely affect measurable performance with a DBT.
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DaveBSC

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Re: RSA The Intruder
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2012, 07:39:54 PM »

I am curious about how much better the amp is (if at all) in the HM-901. I really really don't like carrying stacks around either, so I use the HM-801 despite its compromises. I also don't like the idea of running an amp into an amp - most of the portable DAPs have no digital output.

What makes me nervous is Fang's decision to use the Sabre. Seems like a very odd choice going from the "analog" sounding PCM1704U/K to the very "digital" sounding (most of the time) ESS DAC that supposedly is a pain in the ass and very difficult to implement properly.
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Anaxilus.

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Re: RSA The Intruder
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2012, 08:23:58 PM »

The SABRE is the shit hot must have DAC atm.  He's departing from the 1704 because he's just can't get anymore, so supply issues.  Considering the implementation of the Phillips 1534 in the 602 and what it does to hi-rez files, I'm not holding my breath he'll nail the SABRE tbh.

I'm pretty damned jaded wrt the portable DAP market atm tbh.  Performance has gone up maybe 5-10% w/ audible compromises and issues while prices have skyrocketed exponentially. :'(   Hell, I think my old $90 Sflo2 sounds better than most of the stuff being offered at 2-3x's the price now.
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DaveBSC

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Re: RSA The Intruder
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2012, 08:45:39 PM »

I knew that the supply of 1704s had dried up, I just was hoping to see something like the WM8741 or the AKM4399 in there instead. The Sabre has a reputation of sounding rather sterile and cold unless done exactly right. I know it's a great bullet point to have on your marketing sheet that you have the "awesome" ESS 9018, but that doesn't make it the best choice.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. The price has gone up several hundred more over the 801, so it had better be good.
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Marvey

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Re: RSA The Intruder
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2012, 01:36:45 AM »

  • Dragonfly USB thingies are already everywhere. Already seen two myself in existence.
  • On the DBT question directed to me:
  • I suspect I could pick apart caps and transformers which were very different sounding in a DBT. But between two high quality caps of slightly different sound, I would probably fail DBT everytime.
  • I would fail an ABX DBT format  with very subtle things thing DAC filters. However, over long term listening, I would probably be able to tell, that is gravitate toward a filter which was my preference.
I am not against DBT. It has its purposes. But read this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/492556/perfect-wave-dac-owner-unite/810#post_8830826 and the next 20 posts. Now how heck can you explain how my preferences were for the linear phase filters on the DAC when I didn't even know which filter was which? And also consider that the manual was completely wrong? (thus eliminating any expectation bias or or at the very least mind-fucking me with expectation bias.)

And also, how the hell did Monkey and Anaxilus (he's banned on HF so he can't say anything) also note certain characteristics of filter #4?

I guess this has nothing to do with DBT (but rather the quick switching ABX testing), which is kind of designed to fail. IMO, DBT testing for audio needs to be done over long periods of time under many different moods without any pressure.
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wiinippongamer

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Re: RSA The Intruder
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2012, 06:40:16 AM »

Well they do seem like pretty dramatic differences on paper. Shouldn't be extremely hard to tell them apart.
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Marvey

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Re: RSA The Intruder
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2012, 07:03:49 AM »

I can say that with quick ABX, it was really hard to tell the filters apart if at all.
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ultrabike

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Re: RSA The Intruder
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2012, 08:02:20 AM »

I can say that with quick ABX, it was really hard to tell the filters apart if at all.
I can't say I've heard the PWD2 using the X or Y filters 'cuz I just heard it at meets or so with whatever filter or configuration it had. But Marv was clearly not alone in having a hard time figuring out the differences. Alex was also open about having a hard time telling the filters apart: http://www.head-fi.org/t/492556/perfect-wave-dac-owner-unite/825#post_8832967

FWIW the digital filters are likely low pass, and by going from linear to minimum phase, the high frequencies are likely the most affected. How much difference there is in paper between linear and minimum phase might depend on implementation (how many taps, what type of filters were used, what windowing was used to cut the filter, what is the filter 3dB frequency, what sampling rate the filters require and so on.) Additionally, other things in the chain may dominate... Like the analog filter in the DAC, the amp... Honestly, I don't know how difficult it would be to differentiate the effects of filters in the chain unless I actually try them. Based on the little that I know, maybe high frequency stuff is easier to catch. If it's just the air, I can easily see me not being able to tell them apart (I don't think I can hear past 15kHz.) But who knows...
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rhythmdevils

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Re: RSA The Intruder
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2012, 08:07:10 AM »

I hear a difference between the different filter settings on my Gamma2 but none of them sound bad, and anyone with a strong preference is full of it.  With the gamma2 anyways.  I just set it to the one that sounded a bit better to my ears and then whatever

I think the thing most audiophiles need to wrap their heads around is that just because there is a difference, doesn't mean it matters.  If you're not sure which is better, it doesn't matter. 
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fishski13

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Re: RSA The Intruder
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2012, 08:44:15 PM »

I hear a difference between the different filter settings on my Gamma2 but none of them sound bad, and anyone with a strong preference is full of it.  With the gamma2 anyways.  I just set it to the one that sounded a bit better to my ears and then whatever

I think the thing most audiophiles need to wrap their heads around is that just because there is a difference, doesn't mean it matters.  If you're not sure which is better, it doesn't matter.

differences in the filter settings on the gamma2 are subtle, more prevalent over a longer listening session, and with HPs with a more upper-mid/treble emphasis.
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