CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

  • December 31, 2015, 10:38:46 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9

Author Topic: Here you go, just for you Shike.  (Read 14488 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Rabbit

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Powder Monkey
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +32/-8
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 69
Re: Here you go, just for you Shike.
« Reply #70 on: February 09, 2013, 01:23:30 PM »

My dream is to have a dedicated listening room at one point...

A high end headphone ........  p;)

The HD250 II and K500 were already an awesome combination. One comfortable and 'good' sounding closed headphone and I'm content for the long run. Before I can go high end as you guys call it I have to survive on a tight student budget.

After headphones I'll first opt for 'good' Pro-Audio monitors because I like having a good speaker system.

I don't know the K500 but the HD250 II I know very well. It also has a tailored response but it's a very good headphone.

It's not really a monitoring device though. Recently, I encountered the Fostex TR50RP for the first time thanks to forums. That works well as a monitoring headphone, but wouldn't be as pleasant for Hi Fi enthusiasts though I guess. Until now, I've stuck with the DT150 for years with all of its problems. However, I'm not using them for serious stuff like mixing, but for monitoring performances more than judging recording quality. It does that well since it plays at lifelike volumes without pain and it's comfortable and passes the 'I can sit on it' test. (My memory is painful and I aways forget where I put them until I sit on them!!)

However, I am getting pulled more and more to the T50 since I know of someone modding them who is getting quite amazing results from them as a result.

Therefore what I'm saying is that you don't really have to spend a fortune on headphones if you know what to get. One of the biggest advantages of being part of a huge forum of people with a vast array of experience and equipment at their disposal.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 05:17:26 PM by Rabbit »
Logged

Marvey

  • The Man For His Time And Place
  • Master
  • Pirate
  • *****
  • Brownie Points: +555/-33
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6698
  • Captain Plankton and MOT: Eddie Current
Re: Here you go, just for you Shike.
« Reply #71 on: February 09, 2013, 06:39:23 PM »

You should definitely go T50RP route. Even the most basic mods yields the good results.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 06:59:21 PM by purrin »
Logged

Rabbit

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Powder Monkey
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +32/-8
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 69
Re: Here you go, just for you Shike.
« Reply #72 on: February 09, 2013, 06:47:48 PM »

You shouldn't definitely go T50RP route. Even the most basic mods yields the good results.

The value for money is astounding. Even just a pad change and blocking of vents makes them into something more preferable for hi fi enthusiasts.

I haven't been able to take them off. Relaxing sound that gets you into the 'room' so well and cleanly at high volume too.

I'm not even getting the 'honk' that you can get from closed in types of headphones. (Although this is semi-closed)

In UK, they are a bit more expensive than the USA but still incredible value.
Logged

omegakitty

  • Guest
Re: Here you go, just for you Shike.
« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2013, 06:56:34 PM »

This may sound ott, but a long time ago, I had problems with room reflections and I went to great pains to line the walls with sound absorbent material. I think it worked well but was unable to compare the untreated room with treated quickly enough.

I think the speakers sounded better in terms of clarity.

Yes, it's sort of the equivalent of minimizing ringing in headphones. You'll get more low level resolution and it will be generally less fatiguing.
Logged

Rabbit

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Powder Monkey
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +32/-8
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 69
Re: Here you go, just for you Shike.
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2013, 10:02:21 PM »

I did all of the walls and even lined the ceiling! When I'd finished, I did wonder if everything had become rather 'dry' sounding though.

I had heavy curtains on a patio door and even experimented by moving the curtains sllghtly to expose glass surfaces in order to tart the sound up!!!

I'm not certain a 'fully damped chamber' is always the best thing at home in spite of the way that speakers get 'tuned'.

Good speaker sound is more rife with problems in many ways than a headphone I suppose. The massive variations in rooms must account for an awful lot of bad sounding systems.

UK homes tend to be small as well so furniture is crowded in etc, so I have no idea how good sound is achieved in them other than to use shelf monitors or near field monitors. Ceilings can also be quite low. Therefore there will be wonderful room resonances that will interact beautifully with your 'flat' speakers.

Doing a frequency sweep from speakers in a room shows surprising amounts of reverberation/ringing of frequencies and not many people take that into consideration when buying speakers.

Not too many of us can afford to build an anechoic chamber in our houses!! They're ugly but a little bit of treatment and care can really help a lot. Identifying key reflection spots is useful and a mirror could be used to identify where they are.  Moving a mirror down the side walls and sitting in the listening position will show where sound gets reflected - when you can see the speaker in the mirror from the seated position. That's where the padding can be critical to cut down room reflections. Not many people actually do this though.

On the key areas, dampening can really cut room revererations down quite well and still leave some room 'liveliness' to keep that 'musicality' there. (For want of a better word)

I guess headphones and 'flat response' have a slight edge since speakers are rife with in room problems and furniture.

To generate a nice clean 20 Hz, a room size bigger than about 17 meters would theoretically be needed as well. A room to dream for.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 10:36:25 PM by Rabbit »
Logged

rhythmdevils

  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +131/-65535
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Team Cheap, Picky Basterds
    • www.my40dollarorhosarebetterthanyour1kflagship.com
Re: Here you go, just for you Shike.
« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2013, 10:36:28 PM »

"Good speaker sound is more rife with problems in many ways than a headphone I suppose."

Not at all.  Everyone overstates the affect rooms have and I have to constantly repeat this so my apologies to those who have read this before.  At least compared to what we see in headphones.  You'd have to specifically design a room to create teh kind of resonances you see in most headphones.  I will say again, that I have no room treatment, one of my speakers is 4 inches in front of a glass wall and they are cleaner than almost all headphones ever made (maybe cleaner than anything ever made).  Maybe some kind of sealed cement chamber with specific shapes on the wall could create something nasty.  I'm still doubtful. 

The affect of rooms has more to do with changes in FR.  And the biggest impact is on bass.  It's more like EQ than it is resonance.  And the affects on dynamics, clarity, detail is more akin to upgrading to a better amp with the same headphone. 

The way my speakers change between rooms is more like HD600 vs HD650 plus the variations introduced by various amps plus a bad sub thrown in sometimes. 

Maybe you could say that rooms have a big effect on resonance in the bass region with speakers and decay rate overall.  But headphones have serious resonance problems in the much more problematic midrange-treble area that cannot be fixed, it's in no way comparable. 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 11:00:49 PM by rhythmdevils »
Logged

Rabbit

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Powder Monkey
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +32/-8
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 69
Re: Here you go, just for you Shike.
« Reply #76 on: February 09, 2013, 10:44:20 PM »

I guess it's easier to change a headphone than change a room. Standing waves are also a problem in rooms.

Have you ever measured what is going on in your room with a frequency sweep? It can be very revealing. Speakers aren't measured by factories in a normal room. Then again what's a normal room? In the UK, it tends to be smaller than the USA so the little shelf speakers tend to be more popular over here than in USA. They don't really give the low end grunt though.

Likewise, popular speakers emanating from USA don't tend to sound quite so good in UK homes. It's all to do with room sizes and proximity of furniture.
Logged

rhythmdevils

  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +131/-65535
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Team Cheap, Picky Basterds
    • www.my40dollarorhosarebetterthanyour1kflagship.com
Re: Here you go, just for you Shike.
« Reply #77 on: February 09, 2013, 10:50:02 PM »

What does a frequency sweep have to do with it?  IME rooms affect the FR of speakers, but not midrange-treble resonance in any serious way. I can hear it I don't need to take measurements.  I have heard my speakers in countless rooms and never heard the kind of painful midrange-treble resonance that almost all headphones exhibit.  Never heard the kind of midrange resonance that even the HE500 exhibits.  What I have heard is differences in bass quantity/tightness, changes in dynamics, speed, clarity, FR.  IME the kind of midrange-treble resonance introduced by rooms must be very broad and gentle, affecting the decay rate but not creating sharp mountain ranges.

My speakers are kind of muddy in my current room (purrin frowned when he heard them haha), and I could improve clarity but I don't care enough to.

To be fair, I guess it depends on your priorities as to what format is more challenging.  I think it's probably easier to get clarity, resolution, dynamics with headphones, and much easier to get smooth FR and clean response from speakers. 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 11:23:38 PM by rhythmdevils »
Logged

omegakitty

  • Guest
Re: Here you go, just for you Shike.
« Reply #78 on: February 09, 2013, 11:30:32 PM »

"Good speaker sound is more rife with problems in many ways than a headphone I suppose."

Not at all.  Everyone overstates the affect rooms have and I have to constantly repeat this so my apologies to those who have read this before.  At least compared to what we see in headphones.  You'd have to specifically design a room to create teh kind of resonances you see in most headphones.  I will say again, that I have no room treatment, one of my speakers is 4 inches in front of a glass wall and they are cleaner than almost all headphones ever made (maybe cleaner than anything ever made).  Maybe some kind of sealed cement chamber with specific shapes on the wall could create something nasty.  I'm still doubtful. 

The affect of rooms has more to do with changes in FR.  And the biggest impact is on bass.  It's more like EQ than it is resonance.  And the affects on dynamics, clarity, detail is more akin to upgrading to a better amp with the same headphone. 

The way my speakers change between rooms is more like HD600 vs HD650 plus the variations introduced by various amps plus a bad sub thrown in sometimes. 

Maybe you could say that rooms have a big effect on resonance in the bass region with speakers and decay rate overall.  But headphones have serious resonance problems in the much more problematic midrange-treble area that cannot be fixed, it's in no way comparable.

Are you listening near field or further away?

The side wall/floor/(possibly) ceiling reflections will be more critical if you're further from the speakers. My listening distance is slightly over 3 m.

So I agree that it's not as hyper critical as resonance in headphones (they're also sitting inches from your ear), but dampening the reflections in speakers still makes a significant improvement. Far bigger than sources, proper (ie not under powering or clipping) amps, etc.

The treatments also aren't something that easily lends itself to quickly adding and removing. But when I removed all my side wall treatments there was a significant difference in the amount of smearing I was hearing leading to low level resolution loss. Also it was generally more unpleasant to listen to at the same volume as before.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 11:37:31 PM by omegakitty »
Logged

rhythmdevils

  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +131/-65535
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Team Cheap, Picky Basterds
    • www.my40dollarorhosarebetterthanyour1kflagship.com
Re: Here you go, just for you Shike.
« Reply #79 on: February 09, 2013, 11:38:05 PM »

Many different rooms.  They're nearfield montors, but I listen to them at further distances as well.  I've heard them in treated rooms, large living rooms, huge wharehouse, carpet, hardwood floor, furniture, no furniture, high ceilings, low ceilings, close to the wall, further away from the wall.  Never heard a sharp resonance like you see in most headphones. 

I'm not arguing that rooms make no difference, I'm saying that it's not the same as the problems in headphones.  And I guess it depends on your priorities as to which is going to be the bigger annoyance- the problems rooms create vs the problems headphones create- and I forget that some people aren't as bothered by peaky resonance as I am.  The worst I've experienced with speakers is boomy bass, and then I just adjust the acoustic space on my speakers and its' fine.  (it's just an EQ).  The worst I've experienced with headphones is gushing blood out of every orphis.  And there was no "turn off the blood switch"
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9