CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

  • December 31, 2015, 10:37:39 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: The effect of Tips on IEMs  (Read 2593 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Anaxilus.

  • Dikus Beligerantis Analmorticus
  • Pirate
  • **
  • Brownie Points: +65535/-65535
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 577
The effect of Tips on IEMs
« on: June 15, 2012, 03:36:27 AM »
As a long time IEMer, I've known or beleived to have known about the profound effect ear tips can have on how we perceive an IEM's signature.  Tyll had a nice writeup but I totally disagreed w/ his conclusions based on my experience and his methodology.  Apart from his explanation of how best to utilize Complys I felt he kind of missed the boat on that one.  The question of 'audibility' also reared it's head and somehow a 5dB discrepancy was judged to be inconsequential/inaudible for the sake of the tests focus.  Odd considering I've seen studies claiming the discernability of 0.5dB in changes.


Regardless, I helped H-fier Inks send some tips and phones (Klipsch Ovals and B2/DBA-02) to Rin as part of his evaluations.  FYI, Klipsch Oval biflanges are my go to for neutral, balanced sound from deep insertion, diffuse field IEMs like the DBA and ER4.  Decided it would be best to link both here so people could decide for themselves.  You can see the Klipsch's on the last chart of Rin's article.  When ears match measures, I get a warm fuzzy.  ;)


http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/


http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comply-foam-tips-and-effects-tip-selection
Logged
If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading - Lao Tzu

ultrabike

  • Burritous Supremus (and Mexican Ewok)
  • Master
  • Pirate
  • *****
  • Brownie Points: +4226/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2384
  • I consider myself "normal"
Re: The effect of Tips on IEMs
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2012, 04:38:01 AM »
That article from Tyll got me very confused... In the end I just let it go and got into some weird conversation with some AstralStorm guy (not too proud about that) ... My Phonak IEM caused me severe and painful wax build up anyway, and I'm sort of giving up on IEMs.

Nevertheless, to me there was a difference in sound with different tips, and I don't think it was placebo at all. I expected more bass and clarity through the Comply T-130 tip, and actually felt less bass and tremble with the Comply vs. Stock Silicon (Phonak PFE 112 IEM). I suppose I could have squeezed the tips internally and messed things up for myself, but the difference in sound was consistent in my opinion and I tried inserting the tips many different ways... Anyways, thank you.
Logged

anetode

  • an objectivist trapped in a subjectivist's body
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +178/-7
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1067
Re: The effect of Tips on IEMs
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2012, 04:53:54 AM »
Rin's blog has some awesome entries. Prior to comply's, the only way I could get sufficient isolation and sufficient insertion was with ety's tri-tips. The comply's are far more comfortable and the proper seal goes a long way to ensuring good performance from an er-4.
Logged
Love isn't always on time.

Marvey

  • The Man For His Time And Place
  • Master
  • Pirate
  • *****
  • Brownie Points: +555/-33
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6698
  • Captain Plankton and MOT: Eddie Current
Re: The effect of Tips on IEMs
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2012, 10:08:58 AM »
Oh, I'd be more than happy to provide some measurements. Seal is crucial to some IEMs.
Logged

melomaniac

  • Guest
Re: The effect of Tips on IEMs
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2012, 12:00:50 AM »
for the ER4, the best solution IMHO is to get the ACS custom tips, very comfy and at $100 not that expensive, I was okay with comply but unhappy with biflanges
Logged

anetode

  • an objectivist trapped in a subjectivist's body
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +178/-7
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1067
Re: The effect of Tips on IEMs
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2012, 01:42:45 AM »
Quote from: melomaniac on June 16, 2012, 12:00:50 AM
for the ER4, the best solution IMHO is to get the ACS custom tips, very comfy and at $100 not that expensive, I was okay with comply but unhappy with biflanges

In his blog Rin discusses his troubles with getting an ACS mold with the proper insertion length, check out http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/509091/acs-custom-molding-in-nyc-and-little-known-facts-about-acs-with-etymotic/75#post_7338163.
Logged
Love isn't always on time.

Anaxilus.

  • Dikus Beligerantis Analmorticus
  • Pirate
  • **
  • Brownie Points: +65535/-65535
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 577
Re: The effect of Tips on IEMs
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2012, 04:41:33 AM »
Quote from: anetode on June 16, 2012, 01:42:45 AM
Quote from: melomaniac on June 16, 2012, 12:00:50 AM
for the ER4, the best solution IMHO is to get the ACS custom tips, very comfy and at $100 not that expensive, I was okay with comply but unhappy with biflanges

In his blog Rin discusses his troubles with getting an ACS mold with the proper insertion length, check out http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/509091/acs-custom-molding-in-nyc-and-little-known-facts-about-acs-with-etymotic/75#post_7338163.


I have the same thing actually.  I have Westone vinyl molds for Ety/Klipsch/DBA/B2 type IEMs.  Rarely ever use them due to the lack of deep insertion affecting the signature.  There's more than just seal going on, distance from the ear drum has a real effect.  I think it's acoustic impedance due to too much air volume for such a small driver.  Kind of like a Sub w/o an enclosure.  The IEM needs to go deep into the custom sleeve to work properly.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 04:43:07 AM by Analixus »
Logged
If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading - Lao Tzu

melomaniac

  • Guest
Re: The effect of Tips on IEMs
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2012, 06:16:07 AM »
Quote from: anetode on June 16, 2012, 01:42:45 AM
Quote from: melomaniac on June 16, 2012, 12:00:50 AM
for the ER4, the best solution IMHO is to get the ACS custom tips, very comfy and at $100 not that expensive, I was okay with comply but unhappy with biflanges

In his blog Rin discusses his troubles with getting an ACS mold with the proper insertion length, check out http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/509091/acs-custom-molding-in-nyc-and-little-known-facts-about-acs-with-etymotic/75#post_7338163.

hm... might it be somewhat dependent on the quality of the audiologist? or are you guys saying that a custom tip simply won't ever reach far enough? I haven't encountered that issue before, but I suppose with deeper ear canals it makes sense
Logged

anetode

  • an objectivist trapped in a subjectivist's body
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +178/-7
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1067
Re: The effect of Tips on IEMs
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2012, 06:24:24 AM »
It depends on how companies like ACS work from the mold. With a single-armature wide-bandwidth design like the er4, they need all the help they can get and were definitely designed for deep insertion and so less volume. Maybe other companies design from a different standard, which might explain why ACS molds didn't work well for an ety.
Logged
Love isn't always on time.

Anaxilus.

  • Dikus Beligerantis Analmorticus
  • Pirate
  • **
  • Brownie Points: +65535/-65535
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 577
Re: The effect of Tips on IEMs
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2012, 06:46:03 AM »
^ This.


Has nothing to do w/ audiologist.  Seal is Seal.  My custom sleeves were made using the same molds as my ES5s done at the same time by the same peopl at Westone with the process done by their head audiologist who publishes and is very well known in the industry.  His molds slaughter any UE impressions I've ever had done.  Perfect seal and fit, no cracks, no flaws. 


You can experience the same thing using universal tips while getting a perfect seal too.  Just use a bigger tip and insert any IEM shallow and you should notice less bass.  If you click on my sig on H-fi you can see how many IEMs I've gone through.  It's insertion depth and seal that matters.  If you find pics you can see how some ER4 sleeves are made to accept the ER4 deeper while sleeved for the W4 are pushed surtehr out because they are slanted nozzles just like the B2/DBA.  Make a custom sleeve that keeps the IEM six inches away from your eardrum and you'll notice the absence of bass.
Logged
If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading - Lao Tzu
Pages: [1] 2
« previous next »