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Author Topic: Amping crappy headphones  (Read 1786 times)

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rhythmdevils

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Amping crappy headphones
« on: May 19, 2012, 07:13:11 PM »

So what is it with people spending thousands of dollars on amp and source for headphones that have severe colorations and problems?  (problems that are not fixable with any amp or dac)

How do you spend 7k on amp and source to have that signal filtered through this?  Or even 2k?  What's the point?  You get a little better imaging and seperation in your honked, resonant, peaky, stabbing mess?  It would be like spending 100,000 dollars on racing wheels for your stock Toyota Prius with stock tires.  And then talking about what a difference it made to the handling and acceleration.  I'm sure it makes some sort of difference, but it's hardly addressing the real problem, which is the suspension system, engine, chasis, tires, etc...



And more importantly, why do many people who can't seem to hear these serious resonance or FR problems in their headphones seem to be able to pick up on the subtlest of differences between amps and dacs?  So often I see someone with an ED10, T1, ED8, D7000, RS1, etc. talking about how much better his 5k DAC sounds to his prior 2K DAC, gushing with prose about the subtle differences in imaging and resolution and refinement.  That would be like using a stock Prius or stock Ford Fiesta to test out differences in racing wheels.  And that person doesn't even hear the gross problems in their headphones, finds them "detailed, accurate and revealing". 

In my experience the problems that an ipod adds to the musical picture as compared to a decent DAC is not significant compared to the colorations that most headphones add to the signal.  I'm not saying good DACs are not significant on their own.  But compared to the difference between an RS1 and a well modded T50rp, they are insignificant.  IME

This doesn't add up to me.  It seems like most people's perception of their gear follows the price, looks and marketing much more closely than the real sound they put out.  It's the only explanation I can come up with.  I wonder how many people would be able to tell the difference between their upstream gear if blindfolded.  Or how much they would like their gear if they thought that sound was coming from an ipod.  (this one's for you LFF  ;) )   How would an ED10 owner like an ATHM50 if it looked and cost like the ED10? 

I'm getting suspicious that most people are fooling themselves (and getting fooled).  As in the vast majority of people.  But I would love to hear another explanation that paints a happier picture. 
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 07:56:17 PM by rhythmdevils »
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RexAeterna

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Re: Amping crappy headphones
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2012, 08:10:42 PM »

i think it's more psychological thing most likely. you spend lot of money so expectations are high i guess? or they just can't hear it?

i also agree with the ipod thing too. i thought most things sounded fine/really nice from it even though on some headphones volume and dynamics were bit limited but overall great to me. just with better stuff like my interface i just hear a ''cleaner'' sound but probably cause my other stuff has a much better S/N ratio, better made and stuff. but yea, i think the ipod is one thing people that tend to over exaggerate in most cases when it came to performance. i loved using my fostex and k601's when i had them for ipod/psp duty. the sa5000 sounded fine out of them as well and these were headphones supposedly needing super tube amps and stuff. i just never used my sextetts or DF's cause they would distort at certain frequencies and volume was a pain unless i hooked my ipod or psp to my amps(which sometimes i did).
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omegakitty

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Re: Amping crappy headphones
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2012, 08:51:43 PM »

RD I think you're preaching to the choir here.

There are also many people on Headfi that just flat out can't hear. Imagining things is at least 85.5% of audiophilia  :P

A prominent "reviewer" over there couldn't hear that one of his headphones had a rattling/broken driver until it was pointed out to him.
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rhythmdevils

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Re: Amping crappy headphones
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2012, 09:20:07 PM »

I don't mean to preach, and this isn't directed at any of you.  ;-) 

I've just slowly been stewing these ideas and they became clear enough to share.  I tend to notice trends and patterns and see things in a more visual way, and then slowly put it together into words.  Of course we all know that a lot of folks are taken advantage of by the hype.  But I've never heard/seen anyone question the upstream gear behind a lot of these craptastic headphones, or frame things in this way.  IME, people in the audiophile/head-fi world are constantly blaming the upstream gear.   So maybe this is a different perspective.

Or maybe someone has some counter arguments.  :-)
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anetode

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Re: Amping crappy headphones
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2012, 09:21:16 PM »

RD has obviously never heard the ED10 when amped by the 10k Woo monoblocks and run from a three chassis Mark Levinson DAC. He's just jealous.
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Marvey

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Re: Amping crappy headphones
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2012, 09:21:31 PM »

LOL. What headphone is that again. 8kHz razor of death... I will present that one at T.H.E. SHOW.

It's going to be awkward with me on the panel with Jorge (Headroom), Mike (CEntrance), and Alex (Audeze) and me bringing up these graphs shitting on $700+ headphones.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 09:28:58 PM by purrin »
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Marvey

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Re: Amping crappy headphones
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2012, 09:23:23 PM »

RD has obviously never heard the ED10 when amped by the 10k Woo monoblocks and run from a three chassis Mark Levinson DAC. He's just jealous.


And obviously you have not seen my special pulley system to adjust the left / right volume knobs of the Woo monoblocks so they are in sync. Only $795.
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rhythmdevils

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Re: Amping crappy headphones
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2012, 09:28:54 PM »

Can I add isolating vibration dampeners to the pulley system for an additional 1k?  I'd hate to transfer vibrations between channels. 
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CEE TEE

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Re: Amping crappy headphones
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2012, 10:50:19 PM »


I'll admit that I do NOT want to blind-test DACs.  Amps are hard enough in blind testing. 


Yes, the PWD sounds warmer than my DAC1 and does something special with EC amps.  I think I could differentiate that from my DAC1...


But gamma2 or Matrix vs. the DAC1?  Prolly no.


Headphones, I think I would have a better shot.  Wish we could take fit/weight out of the test so we wouldn't have as many cues...


@jazzfan has a powered optical splitter and two Lyrs just so he can perform tests for himself.


@Mkubota1 has a little 3.5mm A/B box with switch and recently built something else so that he could try to blindly A/B components.


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maverickronin

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Re: Amping crappy headphones
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2012, 11:00:51 PM »

So what is it with people spending thousands of dollars on amp and source for headphones that have severe colorations and problems?  (problems that are not fixable with any amp or dac)

Honestly I'm starting to think that some people like actually like those razors of death.  Some people seem to like "sizzle" and "sparkle".

There's also a bit of the "different is better" sort of audiophool mentality.  "If it's cheap it has to suck", therefore anything that sounds different and is also more expensive is "better", even if it's full of it's own problems.  I think those razors of death and similar issues with headphones are instead falsely attributed to the recording or other equipment because expensive headphones are supposed to be "detailed" and "revealing".  It justifies their purchase and explains why they don't hear those issues with another headphone without blaming the headphone.

It kind of reminds me of this one guy who loves his ED10 and goes on and on about how detailed and revealing it is.  It's so detailed and revealing that it only ever sounds good with meticulously recorded audiophile label classical on SACD because pretty much all other music is crappily recorded and produced and the ED10 will ruthlessly seek out all it's flaws.

LOL. What headphone is that again. 8kHz razor of death... I will present that one at T.H.E. SHOW.

It's going to be awkward with me on the panel with Jorge (Headroom), Mike (CEntrance), and Alex (Audeze) and me bringing up these graphs shitting on $700+ headphones.

Any chance of this being recorded?  It sounds epic.
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