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Author Topic: 404 vs. 404LE  (Read 1589 times)

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anetode

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404 vs. 404LE
« on: December 13, 2011, 08:52:09 PM »

I'm kind of cross-posting this on head-case. Soon after posting there I realized that this forum might lead to a more substantive discussion  :-\

I've owned a 404LE for a while and always wondered whether there were any differences to justify the differences in sound some observed in the LE beyond the cosmetics/cables. That is to say I suspected that it was a gussied-up 404 with sound similarity way beyond the simple lambda heritage. Which is fine by me, since before hearing it I thought of the Lambdas as some of the ugliest phones around, made worse only by the shit brown. So a sleek black headphone with terrific comfort and fit came as a welcome surprise and in my mind became ample justification for the price differential.

A unique opportunity to test my suspicions came about after Tyll graciously offered to provide stat measurements. Luckily, a regular 404 was in the sample group. The measurements of my 404LE as well as the regular 404 may be found at:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR404S2742.pdf

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR404LtdSSL0670.pdf

Here's an overlay of the two freq. response curves, with the 404LE in the darker orange and brown vs. the light outlines of the regular 404:



The curves are nearly identical, except perhaps for slightly smoother & less rocky upper treble on the 404LE and maybe a slight improvement over the already excellent channel matching.

Where I did find a difference, and where it turns out it really might matter, was looking at the effect the different pads had on the isolation measurement (404 in blue, 404LE in violet):




Now is it possible that aside from the recorded linear/nonlinear distortion of the response that there is some added effect of having an essentially flat, little to no isolation measurement in an open baffle headphone? Could that variation in the upper bass/lower midrange section of the measurement explain some of the recorded opinions of varying bass response among the Lambdas? The fit and seal appear to play an interesting role in the sound of these rather large headphones.

Aside from the minor discrepancy between the two channels recorded in the regular 404's 30hz response the rest of the measurements are almost identical. (At least I think it's safe to say that minor differences in HD at decently less than -40db may be dismissed.)

The impulse response also looks to be within a reasonable margin of variation between pairs of the same model, though it's tough to tell without those lovely CSD waterfall plots.

Again, even though I don't see substantial evidence of 404LE having any notable audible differences from the measurements, the foundational sound of this headphone has been superb. Maybe I've a tendency to prefer a slightly brighter signature because the 404LE sounds fairly neutral.
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Marvey

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Re: 404 vs. 404LE
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2011, 10:31:57 PM »

That's too close to call. Pads and cables are known to be different. Driver?

The best explanation is better driver matching on the LE. And I have my thoughts on that.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 02:52:44 AM by purrin »
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rhythmdevils

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Re: 404 vs. 404LE
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2011, 01:02:50 AM »

If the pads fit differently that would surely effect the sound but I would think if that was the case it would show up in Tyll's FR plots because he uses a dummy head. 
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Marvey

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Re: 404 vs. 404LE
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2011, 02:44:57 AM »

If the pads fit differently that would surely effect the sound but I would think if that was the case it would show up in Tyll's FR plots because he uses a dummy head.

I've noticed that Tyll moves the headphone around to 2637 positions and then average the measurements. I'm not sure if this is the proper way to do it with STAX since the bass response of those are so extremely sensitive to seal and placement. Again, I get the feeling it's driver matching. The 404LE look much better matched than the regular 404 (5db at 11Khz, more than 8db at 13kHz - they also have severe dips at totally different spots in the treble.)


I suspect that they are the same driver, but just cherry picked ones.


« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 03:00:45 AM by purrin »
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anetode

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Re: 404 vs. 404LE
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2011, 03:57:51 AM »

I noticed the better driver matching, though it's at spots where it wouldn't necessarily be audible -- the lowest bass and the highest treble. In the case of the latter, volume variations aren't as readily apparent in casual listening (I don't know about the ear-to-ear volume-difference perception mechanism, past 10khz it might simply manifest as a difference in soundstage).

The drivers are supposed to be basically the same. It would be awesome to have a greater sample size to measure and compare, but I agree that there's evidence of some cherry pickin' and possibly even a little bit of a difference in damping.
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