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Author Topic: Review and RMAA: JDS Labs The Element  (Read 1394 times)

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ohm-image

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Review and RMAA: JDS Labs The Element
« on: September 18, 2015, 02:32:45 AM »
I'm not an electrical engineer, so I can't comment on the odd USB behaviour I've noted in the following The Element RMAA report:

http://ohm-image.net/data/audio/rmaa-jdslabs-the-element-24-bit

But when all hunky dory, The Element is both powerful and high-performance. Its output is very low noise, hissing a bit more than an iPhone 5 and a bit less than an iRiver AK100 (original). It achieves L/R balance pretty quickly, but maybe not quick enough for really sensitive earphones such as the Ultrasone IQ or Shure SE846 when maxing the volume of your software.

It works with an iPhone/iPad via CCK. Brilliant. Coincidentally, I got great performance from the iPhone and only good performance from the USB of my 2012 iMac.

I wrote about it at headfonia:

http://www.headfonia.com/review-jds-labs-element-bravado/

If you have any questions or (more likely) noticed spelling/grammar mistakes, or where I need to clarify something, please shout.
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Solderdude

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Re: Review and RMAA: JDS Labs The Element
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2015, 07:13:35 AM »
Well ... that's quite some hum coming through.
Must even be audible.

I hardly think these RMAA reports show the true performance of this DAC.
I would ignore them... poor usage of RMAA
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ohm-image

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Re: Review and RMAA: JDS Labs The Element
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2015, 11:45:36 AM »
Quote from: Solderdude on September 18, 2015, 07:13:35 AM
Well ... that's quite some hum coming through.
Must even be audible.

I hardly think these RMAA reports show the true performance of this DAC.
I would ignore them... poor usage of RMAA

While I agree that RMAA isn't the best tool, nor have I used it to the best of its ability, I must beg to know why you think this is poor usage of RMAA.
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Solderdude

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Re: Review and RMAA: JDS Labs The Element
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2015, 12:54:22 PM »
because I think the high amounts of hum seen in the plots isn't something coming from the DAC (I am quite sure)
So... the generated numbers and plots do not say anything about the DAC but rather about issues with the measurement chain.

Granted... not RMAA's fault.  :)

EDIT:
Had a look at your other measurements on your website and some do not show any mains related artefacts where others have just some of it.
The JDS lab measurements strike me as 'odd' and like to think JDS wouldn't market something with that audible amounts of hum.
In any case the generated numbers deviate substantially from the manufacturers listing.

perhaps screening of interconnects or a ground-loop could well be responsible for this.

I appreciate your efforts and think the presentation and website looks nice.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 01:40:23 PM by Solderdude »
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ohm-image

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Re: Review and RMAA: JDS Labs The Element
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2015, 03:09:23 PM »
Quote from: Solderdude on September 18, 2015, 12:54:22 PM
because I think the high amounts of hum seen in the plots isn't something coming from the DAC (I am quite sure)
So... the generated numbers and plots do not say anything about the DAC but rather about issues with the measurement chain.

Granted... not RMAA's fault.  :)

EDIT:
Had a look at your other measurements on your website and some do not show any mains related artefacts where others have just some of it.
The JDS lab measurements strike me as 'odd' and like to think JDS wouldn't market something with that audible amounts of hum.
In any case the generated numbers deviate substantially from the manufacturers listing.

perhaps screening of interconnects or a ground-loop could well be responsible for this.

I appreciate your efforts and think the presentation and website looks nice.

Solderdude: thank you for the feedback.

I am located in Japan in a house with a ground hum, of which I am well aware. There are some mains implementations with little no no issue. There are others with dire problems. The worst (and most embarrassing is the Goldmund TELOS HDA). That said, most manufacturer claims are a bit optimistic. JDS are more transparent than most and I believe most of their claims. Again, HILO isn't a professional monitor, and is susceptible to some interference. But so would a dScope III be in this place.

If I find a way to fully eliminate ground loop, I'll update. For now, I'm fine as I am aware of the problem and understand how/where it affects results. I publish RMAA scores not as a reference level metric, but as a reference only.
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mickeyvortex

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Re: Review and RMAA: JDS Labs The Element
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2015, 05:23:21 PM »
I've been interested in this unit and was a bit disappointed with the data but just a thought based on what solderdude said. IIRC, you can't go from an unbalanced to balanced connections without adding a (passive?) transformer into the signal chain, something like what Jensen, Radial or some of these pro-audio folks make. Essentially, you're feeding the Lynx a dirty signal from the iMac that is plugged into dirty mains, aka, garbage in=garbage out. The iPhone is battery powered and that's why the connection is so clean. Correct?
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firev1

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Re: Review and RMAA: JDS Labs The Element
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2015, 05:36:59 PM »
Just a few tips with the grounds hum, are you using separate laptops/systems for AD and DA? Separating them will help if you are not already doing so.

Its not a matter of even just using a Dscope, since no doubt other measurement interfaces/systems would be subjected to this  kinda noise. In my experience even just moving around the setup around your room to find that magical spot works lol. Make sure whatever cables you are using is also good. Good as in not audiophilely but 100% screened and short lengths or not wrapped in loops to make an antennae.
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gelocks

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Re: Review and RMAA: JDS Labs The Element
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2015, 06:24:47 PM »
I'm really liking its look and portability, etc. but at $350, isn't this too much? (i.e. wouldn't a Modi + Magni deliver better performance and a small-ish-not-portable package as well?). I like Seaber's design though. Might try it.
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ohm-image

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Re: Review and RMAA: JDS Labs The Element
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2015, 01:36:16 AM »
Quote from: firev1 on September 18, 2015, 05:36:59 PM
Just a few tips with the grounds hum, are you using separate laptops/systems for AD and DA? Separating them will help if you are not already doing so.

Its not a matter of even just using a Dscope, since no doubt other measurement interfaces/systems would be subjected to this  kinda noise. In my experience even just moving around the setup around your room to find that magical spot works lol. Make sure whatever cables you are using is also good. Good as in not audiophilely but 100% screened and short lengths or not wrapped in loops to make an antennae.

Alas, I'm tied to a home computer (an iMac), so moving around isn't possible. I have screened all the outlets in my house and lo' and behold, there are problems. In terms of audible noise to the headphones, the TELOS HDA was almost metallic, but the ELEMENT is just a small amount of noise, between an iPhone and an AK100, which is small. I'll work to make my setup cleaner, but I don't think I'll be perfecting it any time soon. That said, the basic character and drive capability of an amp comes through clearly in even these RMAA results, not to mention how and when load-induced distortion jumps up, or remains level.
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Cos

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Re: Review and RMAA: JDS Labs The Element
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2015, 06:41:14 AM »
Bummer this amp does not have speaker outs... From a practical standpoint this may be the biggest disadvantage compared to the shiit stack. The exterior design is very appealing and mates well with Mac devices. Hopefully the electrical interference from the USB port does not ruin it / maybe one of them filters or reclockers can help but this would compromise its sleack form factor.
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