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Author Topic: Yggdrasil vs Gungnir Multibit (Yggy vs. Gumby) Comprehensive Comparison  (Read 12397 times)

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johnjen

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Re: Yggdrasil vs Gungnir Multibit (Yggy vs. Gumby) Comprehensive Comparison
« Reply #80 on: September 16, 2015, 11:44:47 PM »

dup, bad dup no soup for you…
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PWD-II w/bridge (lightly modded) - Schiit Ragnarok - The Rok (lightly modded) - HD-800 SAA modded, balanced & hardwired
Shunyata Python & α-Digital & Anaconda XLR - AudioQuest Coffee - Wyrd Schiit - 'Other' cables & Tweaks aplenty
Schiit Mojo (retired for now)

johnjen

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Re: Yggdrasil vs Gungnir Multibit (Yggy vs. Gumby) Comprehensive Comparison
« Reply #81 on: September 16, 2015, 11:49:57 PM »

Quote from: mikosslink
snip
I also found the Yggy to do something with dynamic range that also kind of blew my mind. I never really understood how this could be done, but my understanding is that I'm hearing an expanded range of volume, revealing much more nuanced information than before. It's revealing nuances in how instruments are being played, how singers are forming their words, and it changes the presentation of the song in a way that captures atmosphere unbelievably well. I've heard tubes that can pull of a more "musical" sounding presentation, which is somewhat of a subjective term, but this is different. It's extra information in the form of an expanded range of volume, or dynamics... that is the way that I can best describe it.
snip

If this is what I think you're talking about then you should also be able to crank the MoarKnob up, since there would be much less discomfort at higher levels, as well.

From what I've gleaned thus far, when the source signal is 'properly' timed, and passed along to the HP's intact, the resulting acoustical presentation creates more 'powerful' sound pressure, in its proper time with respect to its actual acoustic source.
This added 'power' means that the impacts of percussion instruments, and the ability to hear sub-harmonics is enhanced. It also has other really kewl beneficial results for most other 'voices' (organic, & instrumental), like an increase in the perceived instantaneous dynamic range of each 'voice'. 
The smack and punch and impact all have greater power behind them.

IOW as the signal that is converted to acoustic power becomes more cohesive, coherent, and better coupled, the power of the generated acoustical 'wave' is more 'efficient' because less power is 'wasted' or smeared thru time. This smearing means the wave form is slightly out of time and focus, with respect to its original 'parent' source.  So this more precise wave front can deliver more power all because the signal can convert the inherent power in the wave form, more effectively/efficiently into acoustic power.

I notice this as being directly related to the Listener Fatigue Factor, and the ability to crank up the MoarKnob even higher, before discomfort kicks in, this is the giveaway, at least for me.

The use of the Listener Fatigue Factor also applies to analog inputs, especially vinyl, as in when the diamond tip isn't reading the groove precisely enough (time smeared), in fact that is where I first stumbled upon this rather helpful diagnostic 'tool'.

This also applies to digital which is why I think we are seeing all these femto second clocks, power supplies with umpteen sections of regulation etc., just to help get the timing as accurate as possible during the analog signal re-creation. 
I have been tracking this as my own MoarKnob 'performance' shifts and changes, and there is a strong correlation to improvements and tweaks I make.
Like when I soldered the ground return leads (instead of just wire nutting them) at the j-box just upstream from my gear. This essentially 'tightened' or made more 'rigid' the ground connection to the dac and amp.
Next up are the hot and neutral wires in that same box.  headbang

And after getting just a taste of Jggy last weekend, it just reaffirms my take on this.
The ability for each instrument to delineate those ultra fine details and remain in focus to itself, is also related to the Listener-Fatigue-Factor L-F-F (does that satisfy everyone?)&nb sp; popcorn :)p3 :)p13

JJ
ps I too look forward to your thoughts and insights.  :thumb
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PWD-II w/bridge (lightly modded) - Schiit Ragnarok - The Rok (lightly modded) - HD-800 SAA modded, balanced & hardwired
Shunyata Python & α-Digital & Anaconda XLR - AudioQuest Coffee - Wyrd Schiit - 'Other' cables & Tweaks aplenty
Schiit Mojo (retired for now)

mikoss

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Re: Yggdrasil vs Gungnir Multibit (Yggy vs. Gumby) Comprehensive Comparison
« Reply #82 on: September 18, 2015, 01:51:48 AM »

Further impressions of the MB Gungir...

My speaker setup sounds much improved, using Gumby as the DAC. My PMC Twenty.22's have always been bass anemic, but one of the biggest improvements that I've noticed is the bass sounding much better. Overall, more clarity on both the speakers and through headphones, using the Zana Deux. Guitar/strings sound very liquid... vocals are also clear and resolving.

I am noticing that the warmth is accounting for a reduction of the "Yggy effect" where (apparently) all details are extremely resolved without coming across as unnatural in any way. Gumby is not sounding unnatural at all; it sounds extremely linear to my ears from top to bottom, but my nitpick is the warmth. Hell, I am using the ZD as my amp, so perhaps some of the blame is there, but in my defense, I've only ever heard the Yggdrasil feeding the Bottlehead Mainline, and the details were definitely more resolved. I expect that the Zana Deux should resolve just as well, but maybe somebody who has heard the BHM and ZD can chime in.

I also have noticed that my vinyl rips at 24/96 are sounding very nice with the MB Gungnir. Also the very few hi-res albums I've purchased sound better than I have heard from other DACs. I imagine this is due to the Multibit technology... but damn, they sound nice. I wish my entire digital collection was well ripped vinyl, just because it's easier than upgrading the vinyl rig and keeping things clean.

I will see how close I can get this to sound like the Yggy, but I will say that Gumby is well worth the price, IMO. Just as most of Schiit's gear has high performance to price ratio, the MB Gungnir kicks some ass. But the Yggy also kicks its ass... IMO. Thanks for comments/thoughts from others.
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Original_Ken

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Re: Yggdrasil vs Gungnir Multibit (Yggy vs. Gumby) Comprehensive Comparison
« Reply #83 on: September 18, 2015, 02:34:08 AM »

I wish my entire digital collection was well ripped vinyl, just because it's easier than upgrading the vinyl rig and keeping things clean.
With all due respect, vinyl rips are for specific albums where there are no good digital rips.  In general, vinyl rips have all the downsides of vinyl combined with all the downsides of digital.  The "worst of both worlds".

The whole point of vinyl in 2015 is to have no digital in the system at all...
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mikoss

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Re: Yggdrasil vs Gungnir Multibit (Yggy vs. Gumby) Comprehensive Comparison
« Reply #84 on: September 18, 2015, 02:35:39 AM »

With all due respect, vinyl rips are for specific albums where there are no good digital rips.  In general, vinyl rips have all the downsides of vinyl combined with all the downsides of digital.  The "worst of both worlds".

The whole point of vinyl in 2015 is to have no digital in the system at all...
Sorry, I guess I should have specified that I prefer the vinyl masters. They have markedly better dynamic range.
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Original_Ken

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Re: Yggdrasil vs Gungnir Multibit (Yggy vs. Gumby) Comprehensive Comparison
« Reply #85 on: September 18, 2015, 03:25:07 AM »

Sorry, I guess I should have specified that I prefer the vinyl masters. They have markedly better dynamic range.
I'm not sure what you mean by a "vinyl master" ?
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mikoss

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Re: Yggdrasil vs Gungnir Multibit (Yggy vs. Gumby) Comprehensive Comparison
« Reply #86 on: September 18, 2015, 03:33:15 AM »

I'm not sure what you mean by a "vinyl master" ?
Some albums aren't released digitally with the same master as the one used for their vinyl release... these are the albums that I am referring to. They sound compressed and lack the dynamic range of the vinyl issue.

This may be why some crazy people enjoy listening to vinyl rips. See the dynamic range database for more info.
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Original_Ken

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Re: Yggdrasil vs Gungnir Multibit (Yggy vs. Gumby) Comprehensive Comparison
« Reply #87 on: September 18, 2015, 03:43:26 AM »

Some albums aren't released digitally with the same master as the one used for their vinyl release... these are the albums that I am referring to. They sound compressed and lack the dynamic range of the vinyl issue.

This may be why some crazy people enjoy listening to vinyl rips. See the dynamic range database for more info.
Ah, okay.  That was my first sentence: "With all due respect, vinyl rips are for specific albums where there are no good digital rips. "
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lashto

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Re: Yggdrasil vs Gungnir Multibit (Yggy vs. Gumby) Comprehensive Comparison
« Reply #88 on: September 18, 2015, 10:52:17 AM »

Further impressions of the MB Gungir...

My speaker setup sounds much improved, using Gumby ... I imagine this is due to the Multibit technology ... but damn, they sound nice.

I have no doubt that you indeed just imagined two long posts about not sure what .. and you did that on a *measurements* thread!  And I also imagine that your speakers sound much improved with a Dac than with a bag of carrots.
The only question I have is why are you writing this stuff?
 
P.S.
Did anyone do some serious tests/measurements or this whole thread is about who can imagine better?
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HitmanFluffy

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Re: Yggdrasil vs Gungnir Multibit (Yggy vs. Gumby) Comprehensive Comparison
« Reply #89 on: September 18, 2015, 12:16:33 PM »

Subjective comparisons are in the OP. Wasn't any stipulation that measurements or technical comparisons were necessary to post in this thread. I don't see a need to raise a stink about someone not spending hours lining up measurements.
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