CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

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Author Topic: T1 Version 2  (Read 3838 times)

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thegunner100

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Re: T1 Version 2
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2015, 03:35:28 PM »

[/b]
"It truly was messed up" is too strong a description. T1's treble was mildly grating on badly mastered albums. On well mastered ones I hear no problems with the treble. The sound is smooth like butter. Try this album - http://impexrecords.com/Well45.html You can also buy this as a 24kt gold plated CD - http://impexrecords.com/WellGCD.html
T1 should really be used with tube/valve amplifier or at least with a hybrid ones. The tubes take some of the tizzzz off and extra series of harmonic overtones also help with padding lean and fast tones of T1.

What is your setup? Your last post before today was from November 23, 2014. It also happened to be about the T1.
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sszorin

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Re: T1 Version 2
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2015, 03:53:17 PM »

Are we both talking about the same t1? That was the second worst treble I've ever heard, after the dt990 250ohm.

Also there are many $300-$700 headphones I'd take over the t1 even if they were the same price. That treble is just disgusting
Early production of T1, some 1800 units, was plagued by the overly hot treble. This problem was subsequently solved by the manufacturer but T1 never seemed to recover from those early impressions. Ignoramuses still play the tune.
Do you know how to position T1 on your head and ears ? The incorrect position gives thin and trebly sound. T1 exposes badly done recording and mastering of sound and that is what any decent headphones should do. I would not pay a dollar for headphones which are not transparent. I have albums which I cannot listen to with T1 [example :Sony production - Miranda Lambert's albums] but with well done albums T1 are excellent headphones.
Spread contempt and hatred instead towards those in the music industry who do fraudulent and atrocious audio engineering job and towards those who make fabulous living by peddling substandard sound.
There was a man, he was a great sound engineer, who tried in his life to bring audiophile standards to sound studios and suffered abuse because of it, because for most studios who do fast and cheap work "the consumers will swallow it".
http://www.stereophile.com/news/11427/#sJfWFPfMki4ab3EF.97
Try the album which he worked on - Martina McBride / Emotion - with T1 and you will not complain.
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keanex

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Re: T1 Version 2
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2015, 04:13:39 PM »

I listened to Aja on the T1. The cybals sounded like glass and I don't mean that in a good way. If that's not something you consider a reference album then I'm just going to assume you're trolling.
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borrego

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Re: T1 Version 2
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2015, 04:32:28 PM »

The T1 is very sensitive to the amount of negative feedback in the amplifier output circuit. When being driven by my Phasetech EPA-007 amplifier, there is big tonality difference changing the damping knob from 8 o'clock position to 9 o'clock position. The T1 need an amplifier with low negative feedback output circuit  to sound good and realistic.
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smitty1110

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Re: T1 Version 2
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2015, 04:36:11 PM »

Hm, I'll have to get my Bijou up and running again to test this out myself.
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Marvey

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Re: T1 Version 2
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2015, 04:46:57 PM »

The T1 is very sensitive to the amount of negative feedback in the amplifier output circuit...

Every headphone is very sensitive to the amount of negative feedback. The T1 is not special in that regard in comparison with other headphones with similar type impedance curves.
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Marvey

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Re: T1 Version 2
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2015, 05:30:48 PM »

Early production of T1, some 1800 units, was plagued by the overly hot treble. This problem was subsequently solved by the manufacturer but T1 never seemed to recover from those early impressions. Ignoramuses still play the tune.

How do you know this? Did someone at Beyer tell you this? Or did Monte Carlo result in the later ones that you happened to have heard have better tonal balance? Just curious as I feel such claims should be substantiated or qualified (anecdotal, a few samples, etc.) In my own experience of sampling about a dozen, 40% of T1s were the "good" tonal balance models. This was circa August 2012. Unfortunately, I did not note the serial numbers. For the three pairs we have measured here, I have always suspected that there may have been two variations of the driver. A bright driver and a less bright driver.

Misterrosters had a T1 which was consistent between both drivers, but evidently got one of the "bright overly" hot treble models. I don't have a measurement of this unit. We have two measurements of "decent" or "corrected" T1s:

http://www.changstar.com/index.php?topic=66.0
http://www.changstar.com/index.php?topic=474.0

Now let's say Beyer corrected the T1 after 1800 units... then how did this happen? Did Beyer match one of the older "hot treble" drivers with one of the "corrected" drivers?


http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,30.0.html

SECONDARILY, despite the better tonal balance of the say "corrected" T1 units, the treble still maintains a rough plateau around 10k and has very evident ringing a 7.5kHz (not a good spot - see image attachment below). I know a lot of hobbyists here at Changstar who would definitely complain about this. (Keep in mind that many people don't like the HD800 tonal balance either).

Given Beyer's QC record with other headphones, I would prefer to label the people you call "Ignoramuses [who] still play the tune" as cautious consumers.

Quote (selected)
Do you know how to position T1 on your head and ears? The incorrect position gives thin and trebly sound. 

No we are all stupid here. We don't try different amps, different sources, mods, tweaks, etc. We are all stupid. Please have Beyer send us a manual on how to properly position the T1 on our ears.


Quote (selected)
T1 exposes badly done recording and mastering of sound and that is what any decent headphones should do...

This is nonsense and uses the same ol' same ol' excuse as people who defend the HD800 as neutral. What you are saying is pick a specific recording which just happens to have less spectral energy around 10kHz, and it will be fine with the T1. Most of us tend to use a wide variety of recordings for evaluating headphones. Some recordings with good tonal balance, others marginally dark, others marginally bright. The headphones with good frequency response will play EVERYTHING without a much of a fuss.
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ultrabike

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Re: T1 Version 2
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2015, 05:37:08 PM »

Beyerdynamic does have THE most competitive product on the market. At the current price of about 800 USD T1 has represented the best value in electrodynamic headphones.

For $800 I can buy a lot of KSC-75s which I tolerate better than a T1. I can also buy an HD600 and a Magni2/Modi2 to go with it. And still have some change left for lots of booze.

"It truly was messed up" is too strong a description. T1's treble is mildly grating on badly mastered albums. On well mastered ones I hear no problems with the treble. The sound is smooth like butter. Try this album - http://impexrecords.com/Well45.html You can also buy this as a 24kt gold plated CD - http://impexrecords.com/WellGCD.html
T1 should really be used with tube/valve amplifier or at least with a hybrid one. The tubes take some of the tizzzz off and extra series of harmonic overtones also help with padding lean and fast tones of T1.

IMO T1 sucks man. Sorry.
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drfindley

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Re: T1 Version 2
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2015, 05:39:35 PM »

Early production of T1, some 1800 units, was plagued by the overly hot treble. This problem was subsequently solved by the manufacturer but T1 never seemed to recover from those early impressions. Ignoramuses still play the tune.
Apparently you should count me among the Ignoramuses. I have listened to at least 3 T1s in the last year (one a AK mod) and I find them all suffering from unbearably hot treble. I bet none of them were those 1800 units.

If a headphone requires very delicate head positioning or very specific amp to not be awful, it's not a good headphone. Even some of the hard to drive headphones like the HD800/HD650 sound great with *lots* of amps.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 02:07:17 AM by drfindley »
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thegunner100

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Re: T1 Version 2
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2015, 05:44:41 PM »

Can we set up a crowdfund to buy a pair of Beyer T1 version 2 to be measured, toured, and burned?
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