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Author Topic: Looking for portable (not mobile) DAC+AMP for Sextetts  (Read 846 times)

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NebuK

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Looking for portable (not mobile) DAC+AMP for Sextetts
« on: July 05, 2015, 08:34:18 AM »

Hi everyone,

i’m kinda new here, so hello! Great to finally find a forum about Audio-Equipment that emphasizes measurement over voodoo  :-0 .

Also, i do hope this is the right section asking for buying-or-building suggestions.

So, what i need help with is an Dac+Amp combination for headphones. I have some old K240 Studio and Sextetts. Still beeing in university, my budget is kinda limited. While i know this is going to be problematic, i max out at around 150-180$. BUT, i am willing to diy stuff — be it making the pcb myself and sourcing components, or simply soldering a kit.

So, what i *think* i need — and i’m open to learning that i don’t need something — would be:

- DAC+Amp
- 150-180$ region
- Portable, not mobile, i.e. not battery powered (wall-wart or even small~ish transformes would be good)
- USB-Powered would be nice if possible (not sure what’s left after cleaning the dirty supply and voltage boosting, all on 500mA?)
- High supply voltage, to be able to nicely drive my sextetts (???)
- Reasonable in quality (i can neither expect wonders at that price — nor crap!)
- Only input required is USB, only output directly to Headphones
- Wouldn’t mind addinional line-level output, not required or forbidden though
- Finished product, DIY Kit or Schematic/PCB-Plan would be ok

Looking around the only design i’ve seen that’s close was the Carrie-V3 from JonBoi. I actually managed to get him to sell me a beta one, but it got lost in shipping :(. Lucky though, he gave me my money back! Now that’s nice service.

Anyways, now i’m kind of devastated as my dream-dacamp was that, only a dream, and i’m left with worst university-computer-pool-lineout for my K240 to work with. Sad. I’ve also searched almost all through this forum, not finding any clues that satisfy all, Sextett driving, portability and pricerange.

I really hope anyone can give me a useful tip!
Thanks for reading
-Dario

PS: Sorry for my bad english here — non-native here :/.
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Deep Funk

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Re: Looking for portable (not mobile) DAC+AMP for Sextetts
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2015, 09:24:51 AM »

Welcome NebuK  ahoy

Please also say hi in the "new members" thread. A greeting is appreciated here.

About the AKGs. First AKG goodness for the win!

Second a high gain CMoy can already drive the Sextett very well. If you have DIY skills you can build your own CMoy and customise it to get a lot out of your AKGs.

DACs, I have no idea. To make things easier let me ask you this. Do you like how the AKGs sound and what part of their sound do you appreciate the most?

What kind of sound you like (basshead, midrange lover, treble-head) determines the choices you will make. I love AKGs for their midrange to highs transition for instance. I used to collect vintage AKGs.

Solderdude and a few others will have some useful insights for you.
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NebuK

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Re: Looking for portable (not mobile) DAC+AMP for Sextetts
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2015, 09:32:26 AM »

Hi,

thanks for the warm welcome! And yes, AKG for the win!  p:3 I love both my pairs.

As for your question regarding sound characteristics … i struggle a bit with it. If anything, i’d aim for the DAC and amp to be as neutral and linear as possible, without promoting listening fatigue which i sometimes encounter with my (slightly less dampened) K240 Studio. I mostly enjoy sax-heavy jazz with my sextetts and love them for their vibrant and dynamic deeper midrange … i think, at least. It kind of just makes the instruments sparkle, which is far too way out into the voodoo range of sound description :-).

So, yes, CMOY. A simple OPA can drive those no problem, with enough supply — right? So especially if i want to go the all-usb route, i’m wondering if the supply is enough to boost to a considerable voltage (say, ±15V?), drive the OPAs with that, and at the same time supply the DAC — with all the lossyness of the other regulators in the setup?

So i think the biggest struggle for building a proper cmoy for the usecase is power supply. More so if i want full-USB supply — with a transformer it’d be simple … but heavy and huge :/.

Thanks so far!
-Dario
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Solderdude

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Re: Looking for portable (not mobile) DAC+AMP for Sextetts
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2015, 11:53:11 AM »

movable desktop amp + DAC in the $150-$180 region isn't really pirate 'material' to work with.
The closest thing that may just work is ODAC+O2 combo (but already on the high price point)

The often recommended UHA-6SmKII ticks the box for DAC + simple C'Moy output stage but output voltage may be too low for Sextets + $ 250.- is over budget.

Personally I would look for something like a FiiO X3 (own one) which is a DAP and costs about $200,-
It can drive the sextets about as good as a C'Moy running of 2x9V and doubles as a USB DAC (24/96)
Charges of USB as well.

Otherwise some cheap Chinese fleabay stuff may work reasonably well for a certain time.

DIY schematics are plenty (not here though).
Making a decent amp + power supply will likely cost around $100.- to 150.- unless you skimp on enclosures.
Add a cheap USB thumb size DAC for about $ 50.- and you are set.

Don't expect maximum SQ for minimum $ though.
Still, IMO, you can already get a more than decent sound from this when you run the C'Moy of +/- 15V
Almost all op-amps can drive a 600 Ohm load (K240 Sextet)
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ButtUglyJeff

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Re: Looking for portable (not mobile) DAC+AMP for Sextetts
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2015, 01:52:02 PM »

I'm curious as to your source currently?  I only ask as the Sextetts are a bit demanding.

This might be one of those times one must choose to hold off on a DAC, and go amp only.  Just because of your limited funds.  No, its far from ideal.  But what can a starving student do.....

My first thought was to check out Garage1217 stuff, as they offer their amps as DIY kits, but most are over your budget.  And the ones that are in your budget might not drive your AKGs to their potential...

I'm looking forward to other's opinions on this matter.
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Solderdude

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Re: Looking for portable (not mobile) DAC+AMP for Sextetts
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2015, 02:27:51 PM »

For $ 200.- the Schiit Modi2 and Magni2 stack makes the most sense, as the headphones are pretty insensitive.
A Vali instead of a Magni2 is also a possibility if you want some tube sound.
Getting them for the US prices outside of the US will be a difficult challenge though.
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NebuK

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Re: Looking for portable (not mobile) DAC+AMP for Sextetts
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2015, 03:40:18 PM »

Hi,


my current source is not portable, it’s an old NAD speaker amplifier with a rather nice headphone out  :)p8 . As a DAC i use my DIYed JeDAC¹, which i’m quite fond of, even though it might seem a bit simplistic compared to all the high-end-high-tech here :-). I also use my JeDAC for my PA100+DIY-ed speakers, and like it quite good!

Sooo, i know that there is plenty of schematic material out there, but one thing i’m missing is a good, small supply. Since i will want a bit more power for my sextetts, especially in voltage(?), a good *small* solution is hard. Most switching boost supplies need arcane ferrite beads or unobtanium smd coils, which are hard to find in small quantities and without 30€ shipping for a 0.05€ part.
If you have suggestions for anything that i could DIY, i’d love to hear! Searching myself i seem at a dead end, not finding anything useful, esp. regarding supply, anymore :/.

China-Fleabay might be a good idea, things i’ve found there include:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/YJ-Assembled-AK4399-SA9227-DAC-USB-decoder-board-support-32BIT-192K-/221802539241?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item33a47628e9#shpCntId
Which seems to be a chinaready version of what i’d probably build myself if i were going transformer-route: ±15V supply from a transformer+rect+linear supply, simple yet nice receiver and DAC, all on one board — connect the transformer, build casing, and off you go.

Also if i were to make an amp — let’s assume i have some kind of magical good clean small modern power supply at ~±15V from somewhere — making a nice CMoy-PCB and grabbing a random chine-fleabay DAC, and throw all three into a good case would be simple i think. The JeDAC would be too large, but there’s many options available. The crux is, again, the PSU :/.

Speaking of casing, so far i’ve always built my own, mostly in-style with my speakers². If saving on anything, i’d most like to save on the enclosure end. Not only are Hammond cases or china clones thereof not that expensive, if it comes to the worst i can DIY something reasonable…

As for the Shiit’s, that’d be a dream. Although i fear one best saved for until i work, the cheapest i’ve found the pair im germay is at around 280€ excl. shipping, which is just way over my budget :/. Same goes for Garage1217, which looks really stylish :-).

Thanks for your recommendations so far.

¹: http://users.abo.fi/jskata/JEDAC/
²: http://pics.kanojo.de/speakers/
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Armaegis

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Re: Looking for portable (not mobile) DAC+AMP for Sextetts
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2015, 03:51:53 PM »

Some of the FiiO gear can put out decent power, and their worldwide distribution is pretty good which should keep the costs low to import.

I have a NuPrime uDSD which I like. It's usb powered and puts out enough to make my HE-6 loud-ish (not well mind you, but if it can push the HE-6 it can certainly push the Sextett).

Oddball suggestion: a small class-D/T power amp, then make an adapter for the speaker taps. Topping has several options that include a dac. In Europe, I think there Temple Audio with their Bantam line (I have no experience with those, just listing whatever I can think of).

In Germany... why not check out some of the Meier gear? http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/
The Rock is near your budget, though it doesn't have a dac.
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Solderdude

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Re: Looking for portable (not mobile) DAC+AMP for Sextetts
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2015, 03:52:58 PM »

I have a power supply PCB with integrated DC protection which is designed around LM317/337 and only needs an external trafo (2x15V)
It delivers regulated DC +/-15V to +/-17V but other voltages can be made.

When the output of an amplifier is connected to the board you also have a power on delay, fast off and DC protection on the amp.

The PCB is 10cm wide and 11cm long.
For now PCB only, standard parts.
Will be available in a month or so (PCB's are ready for production)

There will also be an amp section which is smaller in size (10cm wide 8 cm long) and a powerful amp (inverting) with some nice bonus features.
This can be mounted above the power supply PCB.
Also available in about a month or so....

This amp can easily drive orthos as well as sextets etc with ease and is very cheap in components.

(from the Netherlands)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 04:27:19 PM by Solderdude »
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NebuK

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Re: Looking for portable (not mobile) DAC+AMP for Sextetts
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2015, 10:04:36 AM »

Hi,

sorry for the super late reply. I got a bit frustrated because i couldn’t find any viable solution for my usecase.

So, i think i have to get rid of one of my requirements, at least. Since i just recently got myself a not-that-bad el cheapo china DAC+headamp powered from USB that at least handles my K240 Studio reasonably well (not my sextetts though), i have a solution for university. So i’ll get rid of the hard portability requirement. This now makes it possible to use designs with transformers rather than lighter and smaller switchers. So, now i’m really interested in your PSU @Solderdude :-).

Also, i’ve found another very VERY well documented, modular design, which has fully published plans, and looks like it can be DIYed easily!
http://www.pavouk.org/hw/audiosystem20/en_index.html

I’d especially eye the PCM1702 DAC and LME49600 HeadAmp, although the PSU should be modified to provide more than ±12V for the Sextetts, right? So either look for LM7815 or 18 (… but ±18V is specced max for the LME49600, i think?), or some other adjustable plug-in replacement V-Reg? … or make Solderdudes PSU design in some good formfactor to go with that overall system :-).

What does everybody think about that design? Does it look reasonable and worth building for the money that it’ll take?

Thanks!
-Dario
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