This is how I found the HD650 to image, until I removed the foam discs at the back of the drivers, as described in OP

Two days until i have to return HD650. Might be my last chance to try or i'll never know, though Marvey said it wouldn't make that much of a difference, if it does in the soundstage, i would definitely notice. I'll sleep over it.

I'm not sure where these "closed can" "narrow soundstage" issues speak is coming from

I'm trying to read the glossary, but i've just started talking about what i hear, so it's hard. There's two reference points for me, X2 and HD650. I hear HD650 "inside" my head, while x2 "outside" my head. It makes a huge difference in half the tracks i listen. It could be that sub-bass helps to create this effect. I don't know.

This bass in the back, strings on the side and vocals in the front from an X2 sound like complete BS to me

They overlap strongly and make a circle? It's obviously my fault that i can't communicate fluently about this topic. Sounds good though.

Personally, If I preferred staying with the $200 schiit stack and wanted neutral sound with wider SS I'd look to the HD558/598. Much cheaper than the X2 or 6xx on most days. Won't be as warm, forgiving or bassy as the X2 though.

HD558/598 would not be able to perform on a lot of tracks i believe, especially considering more contemporary music.

Well, there was talk on the X2 making the Leaderboard a few week back. It was pretty close, until I personally decided to nix it. Your (foxfluent) arguments have almost convinced me to reinstate the X2 perhaps on a conditional basis. My reasons for nixing the X2 as Leaderboard material were as follows:

I'd really think it should be there. Lets say someone wants a really good sound, something better than PX200, but not something that breaks the bank and is not planning to move up the chain. That guy searches the net, finds changstar, reads the suggestions, finds the leaderboards, buys X2 as the "best recommended hassle free cheap good sounding headphone" and you have a happy guy with a good sound on his head.

I agree that HD650 reveals more of the song even with this setup, but it's not always the case. I could write down entire albums where X2 was more revealing for me just because of that sound stage. X2 is really warm sounding HP, but not to the point of loosing clarity. Instruments sound very full and lush and clear. The biggest pro blem is when the soundstage of recording is cramming X2 inside the head, that's when it starts to loose clarity.

T1 is overly sharp if i remember what i've read? This is a deal breaker for everyone. Especially these days where not everyone is listening to 80's and 90's tracks. X2 on the other hand is not an extreme. It's not a boomy mess or a basshead HP. It's a good HP for engaging listen, and for background listen as well i believe.

They overlap strongly and make a circle? It's obviously my fault that i can't communicate fluently about this topic. Sounds good though.

They overlap strongly. Check this chart:

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

Sorry if I'm coming off strong on this. And I think I understand you well. I just don't think that what you are describing as soundstage correlates well with what I think you are hearing.

HD558/598 would not be able to perform on a lot of tracks i believe, especially considering more contemporary music.

Because? The HD558/598 may not be as refined as the HD6x0, but they are not too far off sounding relative to other mid-fi cans.

I did not write this. Luis (LFF) did sometime ago. But I agree with much of what was said here and I believe it applies to the soundstage discussion:


Recently I have been getting a lot of questions and have seen a lot of confusing arguments regarding “center” imaging on amps. The argument goes something like this “The center is fuzzy…therefore the amp sucks.”  Well…I call bullshit. I’ll say it again. BULLSHIT. I don't know who has started this random bullshit but I'm sure it's someone trying to gain some important status or pass himself/herself off as someone with "golden ears". I wonder if TAS is involved?   

Center imaging is part of the soundstage and, on headphones, that comes across being inside your head or behind it. For a lucky few, it will RARELY come from infront. Wait a second…that means there is no center and therefore the amp sucks…right? No. Not exactly. This is very dependent on each individual but in general, if you hear a MONO source inside your head or behind your head, it’s good! If you hear a MONO source more to one side than the other, there is a channel mismatch somewhere or you have hearing loss in one ear. Simple as that. The ONLY way a lucky few can hear a true center image is by using binaural recordings made using a cast of their own ears in a controlled environment.

Ideally, we would all perceive sound the same way…and guess what…most of us do! What changes from person to person is our ability to fine tune WHAT we hear not HOW we hear. The HOW is the same for all of us.
So…how do we hear? More specifically, how do we hear soundstage aka directionality?   

The strongest cues for determining localization come from the differences between the signals reaching our left and right ears. These differences depend on the intensity and time differences. WE ALL HEAR LIKE THIS AND ARE DESIGNED BY NATURE TO HEAR THAT WAY.  A ll other cues, such as content and overall sound intensity depend on the listener’s ability to tease apart acoustic attributes that are due to source content and those that are due to source position.  However, there is one catch to this…this only applies in an anechoic space.

In real life, binaural localization cues are extremely ambiguous as many source sounds can give rise to the SAME interaural differences. This leads to what is called “The Cone of Confusion”. We don't usually experience it because our other senses help us localize sounds in this region.




The “Cone of Confusion” is mainly documented in studies of binaural sound/recording and cognitive and neural systems. This isn’t something I just decided to make up. It’s known and it’s been known for a LONG, LONG, LONG time. Oh and guess what?! It's also been well documented and researched!!!

In fact, it’s so well documented and explained for the technically and non-technically inclined that I don’t see the point in continuing this article. Now that you are aware of “fuzzy center image” bullshit, go out and try an amp for yourself. However, before you do that, do yourself a favor and read-up and understand the non-mysterious “Cone of Confusion” then pat yourself on the back for knowing yourself a little bit better.   

Two days until i have to return HD650. Might be my last chance to try or i'll never know, though Marvey said it wouldn't make that much of a difference, if it does in the soundstage, i would definitely notice. I'll sleep over it.

Consider keeping them and getting a pair of taller pads, there's someone around who installed the HM5 angled velour pads successfully which are pretty deep. I'm pretty sure they will increase the perceived width.

Honestly, if it's worth penning pages and drawing diagrams just return the 650 and X2. You've already made a decision at this point.  Move the discussion to the leaderboard thread and stop crapping in the 650 thread with this X2 stuff. As for me, forgiving and euphonic sounding stuff should never be on our leaderboard. Let other sites deal with that can o' worms. "But my ears like these phones for this song." Blah blah blah.

At least now we have a good example as to why the 6xx is often so underrated.