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Author Topic: What Makes DACs Have Different Sounds/Quality?  (Read 1871 times)

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melikeheadphone

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Re: What Makes DACs Have Different Sounds/Quality?
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2015, 08:23:23 AM »

My problem is that I'm upgrading too quickly (granted I sell the gear at very little loss, maybe 10% at most?) I've been fortunate the gear I got are always in mint/good condition, and I do intend to resell everything in the same mint condition.

I've only been in this hobby for a little over 2yrs; and I'm a slow learner/not paying much attention to the technical aspect of the electrical engineering (but I'm working on that… why I've asked on this thread, really!). So, I think I may have a case of upgradeitis.

I do think that Upgradeitis is the quickest way to kill a hobby. So, some time in the near future, I would have to settle with a setup and learn to appreciate it. Right now, I'm skeptical whether Yggy will offer a lot more than Gungnir, but boy do I want to check out the Yggy (as I said, I don't even know the criteria to look for, when auditioning for a DAC).
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Anaxilus

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Re: What Makes DACs Have Different Sounds/Quality?
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2015, 08:55:45 AM »

Right now, I'm skeptical whether Yggy will offer a lot more than Gungnir, but boy do I want to check out the Yggy (as I said, I don't even know the criteria to look for, when auditioning for a DAC).

Well you asked, I answered. You can sell everything and keep the Bifrost or heck, I have an ODAC for sale for only $85 if you're 'skeptical'. I think you might have some other questions you need to answer first completely unrelated to whether the Yggy is a noticeable improvement or whatever. Many of us have already written our impressions or made notes comparing to other DACs. You or anyone else is free to do your own tests under the same conditions and point out where they are flawed, inaccurate, or imaginary.

Till then, best of luck and happy trails on your journey wherever it takes you.

Btw, if you use the search function or browse the topics, you can find many answers and resources to help you answer your question.
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melikeheadphone

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Re: What Makes DACs Have Different Sounds/Quality?
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2015, 10:16:52 AM »

Well you asked, I answered. You can sell everything and keep the Bifrost or heck, I have an ODAC for sale for only $85 if you're 'skeptical'. I think you might have some other questions you need to answer first completely unrelated to whether the Yggy is a noticeable improvement or whatever. Many of us have already written our impressions or made notes comparing to other DACs. You or anyone else is free to do your own tests under the same conditions and point out where they are flawed, inaccurate, or imaginary.

Till then, best of luck and happy trails on your journey wherever it takes you.


Btw, if you use the search function or browse the topics, you can find many answers and resources to help you answer your question.


I know, I'm having conflicting thoughts! I'm over complicating this for myself.

Thanks for your pointers though… to me, I'm still at that discovery stage of a new hobby; trying to figure out "where is the end game? what is good? what is not good?". So, I think I'll have to try the Yggy and make that as my point of reference for TOTL DACs.

Then compare it with a lesser DAC to point out the different characteristics.

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Claritas

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Re: What Makes DACs Have Different Sounds/Quality?
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2015, 01:25:58 PM »

I was pretty sceptical about hearing differences between amps and especially DACs--till I started going to meets and hearing a good number of them with phones I'm familiar with. It would convenient, in some ways, if there were no differences and if synergy didn't matter but I can't ignore it.

Regarding Yggy, yeah, it's a remarkable accomplishment. It's immediately noticeable how much more vivid / less aerial view it is than the Theta DACs I've heard, and they were already quite good. But it's also fairly expensive for a hobbyist / gentleman amateur, so I understand your reservations. One way I think about it is: I'd be paying $1.40 a day for five years. That actually is less than a cup of coffee.

I can't say how good it sounds with Mjolnir, but I've never enjoyed Mjolnir. If you haven't tried tubes, I'd say try that first.
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Hroðulf

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Re: What Makes DACs Have Different Sounds/Quality?
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2015, 02:25:54 PM »

If there's anything I've learned from fiddling with the Soekris R2R board, it's that filters make or break a dac.
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Re: What Makes DACs Have Different Sounds/Quality?
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2015, 06:32:37 PM »

If there's anything I've learned from fiddling with the Soekris R2R board, it's that filters make or break a dac.

Is that you, diamondears?  :P

Regarding Yggy, yeah, it's a remarkable accomplishment. It's immediately noticeable how much more vivid / less aerial view it is than the Theta DACs I've heard, and they were already quite good.

Would be interested to hear more on this...
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mkubota1

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Re: What Makes DACs Have Different Sounds/Quality?
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2015, 07:13:48 PM »

I know, I'm having conflicting thoughts! I'm over complicating this for myself.


I sympathize with you and so here's my 2 cents:
  • It’s widely acknowledged here (and pretty much everywhere I’ve looked) that DAC differences < amp differences < headphone differences.
  • Guys around here know what they like and zero in on it.  Some of them have pretty darn good hearing- I'm guessing a combo of physiology, technique, and experience.  IMO that can magnify differences to a reader.  Metaphor: A winemaker in Burgundy will probably be able to nitpick Pinot Noir to a higher degree than a sommelier, food critic, or winemaker from another region.
  • If you stick to one brand, it’s likely their stuff will sound pretty similar on a superficial level to begin with.  It sort of makes sense if you think about it.  I personally find my Asgard2, Vali, and Lyr1 very similar sounding.  The Valhalla is the only one that seems to stick out; and even then, not by much.  Again, it’s all relative.
I'm sort of treating this hobby like a journey- pretty much like any other hobby of mine.  I'm not really in any particular hurry... it's not like needing a car to get to work.  It sounds like you're taking the best approach though: Buy/try the stuff and see for yourself.  Fortunately it sounds like you have the means.
:)p7
And oh yeah- don't worry about admitting what you can and can't hear around here.  You won't get beat up... much.   :spank:
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melikeheadphone

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Re: What Makes DACs Have Different Sounds/Quality?
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2015, 12:37:41 AM »

I sympathize with you and so here's my 2 cents:
  • It’s widely acknowledged here (and pretty much everywhere I’ve looked) that DAC differences < amp differences < headphone differences.

I always have trouble understanding these < > signs ;P; is it that DAC is at the bottom of the chain to make sound difference in a complete setup? [/list]
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maverickronin

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Re: What Makes DACs Have Different Sounds/Quality?
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2015, 01:16:23 AM »

    I always have trouble understanding these < > signs ;P; is it that DAC is at the bottom of the chain to make sound difference in a complete setup? [/list]

    < is less than, > is greater than

    Anyway, I think mkubota1 is just saying that the differences between different DACs are usually smaller than the differences between different amps, which are both smaller than the differences between different headphones.

    As to your original  question, anetode has already pretty much summed up my opinion on the matter.

    :)p8
    (click to show/hide)

    If your asking about what's most important, there are two ways to approach it, from a theoretical perspective, and from a practical perspective.  From a theoretical perspective, all aspects of the signal chain are equally important.  Garbage in, garbage out.  From a practical perspective, most amps and DACs exceed the performance of any headphone by such a large margin that they're not usually worth worrying about beyond a basic level.  At least not until you've already picked your favorite TOTL headphone and want to do everything you can for it.
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    Claritas

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    Re: What Makes DACs Have Different Sounds/Quality?
    « Reply #19 on: May 13, 2015, 05:48:48 AM »

    Would be interested to hear more on this...

    Sure. The entry level Thetas were quite resolving and smooth, and had a noticeable thump in the lower bass. They have a very steady sound; very even and well-integrated despite the bass. The soundstage, however, was somewhat set back. If you listen to a full orchestra, you can make out the instruments but you're far enough away that you can hardly see the players' faces. That gives them something of a marionette or automated quality. (I don't know if any of this is true of the best Thetas because I haven't heard them.)

    Yggy positions the listener quite forward in comparison. I felt as if I could touch the players. They really seemed alive to me. That wonderous insofar as it's true to life. But there's also something uncanny about a reproduction's being so realistic.
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