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Author Topic: HE-400i?  (Read 2008 times)

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takato14

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HE-400i?
« on: April 28, 2015, 01:44:47 AM »
Anyone have experience with this one? I see a lot of recommendations for the HE-560, but very few for the HE-400i and I've seen people (marv) explicitly advising against it. The only reason I'm confused is because, according to Tyll's plots, it measures very comparably to the HE-560 and better in several ways when compared to the HE-500 and original HE-400.

What's wrong with it? Is there some ringing or distortion bullshit?
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maverickronin

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Re: HE-400i?
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2015, 01:56:16 AM »
Super noisy meet conditions and all but, I actually thought the 400i sounded better than the 560.

They both seemed to have small-ish amounts of ringing, but in different places.  The 400i was less lush, more open, and had better separation than the 560s.
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TMRaven

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Re: HE-400i?
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2015, 02:13:49 AM »
Must have been the noisy conditions.  One of 400i's biggest weaknesses is its lack of soundstage.  It's basically an average closed headphone in that regard.

My review of the 400i on head-fi sums up the 400i:  slight more mid-bass than 560, slight less sub-bass, more upper midrange-lower treble suckout, and more mid-treble than 560.  It's 560 with a somewhat u-shaped sound.  (Granted, my time with the 400i was using the focus-a pads, so with focus pads it's probably very linear throughout bass to upper midrange.)  Asides from the coloration difference, it's about 80% of the sound of the 560.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 02:51:01 AM by TMRaven »
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Skyline

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Re: HE-400i?
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2015, 02:41:55 AM »
I'm pretty fond of the 400i.  Really, my only complaint was vocals which I found to be a bit unnatural.  Kind of forced and out front and a little wonky sounding.  Chose the 500s mostly because of that issue.

Otherwise, I really enjoyed my time with them.  They work well for a pretty wide range of genres and have a nice amount of bite/energy without being aggressive or harsh up top.
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JoelT

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Re: HE-400i?
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2015, 02:54:02 AM »
Quote from: TMRaven on April 28, 2015, 02:13:49 AM
Must have been the noisy conditions.  One of 400i's biggest weaknesses is its lack of soundstage.  It's basically an average closed headphone in that regard.

My review of the 400i on head-fi sums up the 400i:  slight more mid-bass than 560, slight less sub-bass, more upper midrange-lower treble suckout, and more mid-treble than 560.  It's 560 with a somewhat u-shaped sound.  Asides from the coloration difference, it's about 80% of the sound of the 560.

This is almost exactly how I heard it as well. It's tonality reminded me a bit of a technically inferior LCD-2 - comparatively lower resolution, inferior sub-bass extension, and slightly smaller soundstage though. The upper-midrange/lower-treble suckout was a bit less pronounced than the LCD-2 comparatively.
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Claritas

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Re: HE-400i?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2015, 09:43:24 AM »
400i is a good phone, but not in the same league as HE560. I don't see Marv's measurements on the front page so here's the link in case you missed it: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1755.msg46919.html#msg46919.

400i has some of the best of both HE400 (drive) and HE500 (refinement), without ever really getting to the level of HE500--but I'd take it over HE500 because of the comfort. I agree with Raven that soundstage is small for an open phone, but it didn't sound closed to me.
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marhol

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Re: HE-400i?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2015, 09:57:30 PM »
HE-400i is a great headphone for its price, with a balanced tonality. However, its a warmer and slightly less refined headphone in comparison to HE-560. When comparing both,  HE-400i midrange was (vs HE-560) more fuller and lusher sounding, HE-560 was less engaging for me and sounded more aggressive in treble (although more true to the recordings, less forgiving than HE-400i.) Bass extension and treble extension goes to HE-560 but its not a night and day difference.
I would not call its soundstage small or average. It might seems so when comparing to LCD-X, HE-6 or HD 800. Or maybe its soundstage width feels average for a headphone in this price range. But the soundstage height and depth are in my opinion very good, at least in this price range. Also, to me HE-400i does not feel like a closed headphone, it actually has- as an HE-560 sibling- quite an airy sound, but people are underrating it because they are often comparing HE-400i to HE-560 or HE-400 which have airier/more open tonality.
Cannot  personally comment on HE-400i vs HE-500 as I have not heard HE-500, but I´ve seen a lot of impressions on the internet that these headphones ( both being in stock form) are pretty comparable in terms of sound quality.
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hucifer

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Re: HE-400i?
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2015, 04:19:49 AM »
Quote from: marhol on April 28, 2015, 09:57:30 PM
HE-400i is a great headphone for its price, with a balanced tonality. However, its a warmer and slightly less refined headphone in comparison to HE-560. When comparing both,  HE-400i midrange was (vs HE-560) more fuller and lusher sounding, HE-560 was less engaging for me and sounded more aggressive in treble (although more true to the recordings, less forgiving than HE-400i.) Bass extension and treble extension goes to HE-560 but its not a night and day difference.
I would not call its soundstage small or average. It might seems so when comparing to LCD-X, HE-6 or HD 800. Or maybe its soundstage width feels average for a headphone in this price range. But the soundstage height and depth are in my opinion very good, at least in this price range. Also, to me HE-400i does not feel like a closed headphone, it actually has- as an HE-560 sibling- quite an airy sound, but people are underrating it because they are often comparing HE-400i to HE-560 or HE-400 which have airier/more open tonality.

I'd agree with this. Soundstage is about on a par with HD6x0, as far as I could tell. Headphones with full mids generally don't have wide soundstages anyway.

Quote (selected)
Cannot  personally comment on HE-400i vs HE-500 as I have not heard HE-500, but I´ve seen a lot of impressions on the internet that these headphones ( both being in stock form) are pretty comparable in terms of sound quality.

I disagree here. The HE500 is lusher in the midrange and noticeably darker than the HE400i/HE560 due to a dip in the upper mids. I also found them to be warmer and smoother in overall character as well. Presentation is also more laid back compared to the more mid-forward sound of the HE400i.
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marhol

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Re: HE-400i?
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2015, 03:11:27 PM »
Quote from: hucifer on April 29, 2015, 04:19:49 AM
I'd agree with this. Soundstage is about on a par with HD6x0, as far as I could tell. Headphones with full mids generally don't have wide soundstages anyway.

I disagree here. The HE500 is lusher in the midrange and noticeably darker than the HE400i/HE560 due to a dip in the upper mids. I also found them to be warmer and smoother in overall character as well. Presentation is also more laid back compared to the more mid-forward sound of the HE400i.

Thanks for your impression, another point for HE-500 :), but I was talking more about technical abilities than sound signature preferences. Of course, from the technical point of view HE-500 should have an edge over HE-400i,  it was also initially priced considerably higher than HE-400i, it costed 899 dollars at the start of the sale, and for a reason- its driver was of higher quality over the one used in HE-400.  HE-400i basically uses a tweaked driver from HE-400, but apparently its potential was enhanced to the point it is probably approaching technical abilities of stock HE-500. Besides of few regular users also some respected experts reported that HE-400i matched or even surpassed some sonic abilities of stock HE-500. For reference e.g. purr1n said HE-400i bass was "better than HE 500",http://www.changstar.com/index.php?topic=1755.0. Lieven from Headfonia also compared HE-400i favourably against HE-500 in his review http://www.headfonia.com/hifiman-400i-mid-fi-best/, Jerg in his review basically said HE-400i was " trading blows " with HE 500 http://www.head-fi.org/products/hifiman-he-400i/reviews/11407 and an expert from Czech Republic (nickname MHOE) said HE-400i had clearer, smoother transitions from bass to midrange, having less resonances across that spectrum, on the other hand HE-500 offered better dynamics over HE-400i, in his conclusion he said that the stock HE-400i vs the stock HE 500 = tie, while the modded HE 500 undoubtedly surpassed the modded HE 400i (sorry the article is in Czech language only http://headaudio.weebly.com/clanky/hifiman-he-400i-nastupce-he-500)
So it seems that if the stock version of HE-500 has an edge over stock version of HE-400i, then,  from the technical point of view,  by counting all sonic pros and cons, it probably has to be pretty marginal difference.  Personal preference is of course a different story...
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Claritas

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Re: HE-400i?
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2015, 03:38:50 PM »
Quote from: marhol on April 29, 2015, 03:11:27 PM
Thanks for your impression, another point for HE-500 :), but I was talking more about technical abilities than sound signature preferences. Of course, from the technical point of view HE-500 should have an edge over HE-400i,  it was also initially priced considerably higher than HE-400i, it costed 899 dollars at the start of the sale, and for a reason- its driver was of higher quality over the one used in HE-400.  HE-400i basically uses a tweaked driver from HE-400, but apparently its potential was enhanced to the point it is probably approaching technical abilities of stock HE-500. Besides of few regular users also some respected experts reported that HE-400i matched or even surpassed some sonic abilities of stock HE-500. For reference e.g. purr1n said HE-400i bass was "better than HE 500",http://www.changstar.com/index.php?topic=1755.0. Lieven from Headfonia also compared HE-400i favourably against HE-500 in his review http://www.headfonia.com/hifiman-400i-mid-fi-best/, Jerg in his review basically said HE-400i was " trading blows " with HE 500 http://www.head-fi.org/products/hifiman-he-400i/reviews/11407 and an expert from Czech Republic (nickname MHOE) said HE-400i had clearer, smoother transitions from bass to midrange, having less resonances across that spectrum, on the other hand HE-500 offered better dynamics over HE-400i, in his conclusion he said that the stock HE-400i vs the stock HE 500 = tie, while the modded HE 500 undoubtedly surpassed the modded HE 400i (sorry the article is in Czech language only http://headaudio.weebly.com/clanky/hifiman-he-400i-nastupce-he-500)
So it seems that if the stock version of HE-500 has an edge over stock version of HE-400i, then,  from the technical point of view,  by counting all sonic pros and cons, it probably has to be pretty marginal difference.  Personal preference is of course a different story...

The pricing doesn't tell us much. Why do you believe that 400i uses the same driver as 400, only tweaked? It could be, but some proof would be nice (though I'm not sure how it affects the discussion either way). The rest just sounds like an argument from authority. No one here gives a shit about that.
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