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Author Topic: Audio Zenith PM-X  (Read 18165 times)

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Solderdude

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Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
« Reply #70 on: December 12, 2014, 06:14:30 AM »

But don't ever ask me to measure your own set, will not happen!

Is that because you don't want others to have your calibration and or be able to simply duplicate your method ?
Don't want it to benefit the DIY community ?
Scared Neumann copies the rig ?

Marv and Hans can easily 'apply' that calibration now but think they won't.
I have tried various methods myself and found that some headphones closely measure the same (except with the mic in ear method) while others measure quite different on different setups indeed.

Especially the 1kHz to 7kHz often is affected and can differ a very audible 5dB or even more.

My reference is one I personally trust (others won't perhaps) as listening to that to 'well made recordings' results in real sound with no hint of 'gear'.
My HD650 measures quite similar to yours (and GE's) but not to the ones on some other sites (who differ slightly here and there)
I believe Marv may have shown why that may be, as there seems to be some product variance.
I suspect Senn applies the same kind of 'matching' procedure for HD650 as they do for HD800 resulting in somewhat different sounding HD650's but with decent LR matching.
Perhaps most manufacturers of expensive cans do.
Fostex surely doesn't for their 'cheap' T40-T50RP line .
I have measured and modded quite a few of those and ALL of them had substantial differences between L and R drivers, sometimes I combined/swapped drivers from different HP's to match them closer before modding.

Saying who's rig is 'righter' and can be trusted more or completely is a bit ... well...

But you are right... you should stick with what you feel/think is accurate to use as a reference and have to draw a line where to 'work' from.
A 10dB difference, however, between your and CS measurements (differences between Hans's and Marv's are smaller) is substantial though.
Did you sent your samples to them to compare your rig to theirs, knowing they would be measured using different methods ?
If that is so then dismissing their (somewhat similar) measurements and claiming yours are 'more correct in an absolute sense, which may or may not be true, is what rubs people the wrong way as most trust CS measurements.

All measurements do show a nice linear behaviour (which is good IMO) but all appear to show a different sonic character ranging from extremely 'flat' (in my book) to flat-out warm (in my book).


I know my rig isn't perfect because to get accurate mods/EQ for a few headphones I have to listen/compare to my EQ'ed reference.
I will be open about it and tell you (and every reader) how I 'calibrated' my rig.

I 'calibrated' my rig (a flat line = sound without 'colour') by combining all known plots of HD650 (even used Tylls raw plots but with different compensation) and compared it to my own 'raw' measurements (no ear-canal or Pinna). I also know how my WM61A reacts and after I compensated for that, I only needed to 'compensate' the lows which, in hindsight, appears to follow some rules I wasn't aware off.

When I EQ my HD650 flat on that one it sounds 'right', yet when I do the same to a T50RP it doesn't sound equally 'right' and have to lower some upper mids.
Similar to how your PM2mods sound 'right' to your ears.
You have earned my respect for getting a somewhat wobbly FR 'flat' by 'mechanica/acoustical' means only !

So I know my rig does appear to measure some headphones 'correctly' but other headphones may not.
I get very similar measurements as yours though, so understand your level of confidence.
BUT as UB already mentioned:
As far as which one is superior, for me it is very hard to say. I would not say mine is superior to anyone's FWIW because that I honestly do not know.

Also, the mods seem pricey... But I know I'm a cheap bastard and might say 99% of all things hi-fi audio are pricey anyway so who cares.

I can't/won't say who is 'righter' though, in an absolute measurement correctness kind of way that is.

Hint: perhaps stick (and post) to your 'knowledge' with some humbleness applied and take the rest as 'jokes'.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 07:56:51 AM by Solderdude »
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Use your ears to enjoy music, not as an analyser.

AZ

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Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
« Reply #71 on: December 12, 2014, 06:48:10 AM »

Hmm...maybe you should read what you posted. From link:

"The area around the nineteenth-century Brest Fortress was the site of the 1939 Battle of Brześć Litewski, when German forces captured it from Poland during the Polish September Campaign."

No, we were in SD where Ultrabike helped supply you with data using his measurement rig before you ever supplied a 701 for listening.

Is this the new 'Pravda' or R/T?

Btw, my video was not a documentary talking about WW2, it was having some fun at your driver mods. It's called humour. If anyone needs help with reading I'd suggest you reconsider who that might be.

   I was talking about 1941 June 22nd when WW2 officially started for USSR, you are talking about 1939 and that's ok. no one really wants to know why we are spending our time on it here ( I think). I suggest to just move on on that one.
   I made my first measurements around 2007 and can surely prove it but you think your self what you want and that's fine with me now.
   Sorry, I didn't find it humorous when you presented NKVD shooting at Russian soldiers for my methods of work. I got no sense of humor but who cares, it's an audio forum so let's just leave it at that.
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OJneg

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Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
« Reply #72 on: December 12, 2014, 06:55:34 AM »

FWIW I think Marv's V1 measurements are the most indicative of correct tonal balance.

And I also think Alex's mods take the Oppos more than a few steps up in terms of fidelity. I'll let others judge the value proposition because there are also plenty of other great options on the market.
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AZ

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Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
« Reply #73 on: December 12, 2014, 07:50:31 AM »

Pervs. I think it rubs people the wrong way when you say your measurement rig is private and secret sauce, though you based it on the work of other folks. I based my rig on what I learned from here and there (specially from Marv's posts and to some extent on Innerfidelity and Stereophile)... and so did others I think. It is of course your choice and your work.

As far as which one is superior, for me it is very hard to say. I would not say mine is superior to anyone's FWIW because that I honestly do not know.

I'm not saying this to lecture you, or because I feel Marv, Hans, Solderdude, Tyll, Atkinson, Gargamel, Gandalf, or I need your recognition or acknowledgement. Heck, I don't give much of a crap. But because I feel you deserve to know why perhaps some folks are giving you a hard time.

I also don't know much about the history of the USSR or if half of Europe, Asia, American and Africa where once part of the USSR. TBH you are here in the US and life is good.

Also, the mods seem pricey... But I know I'm a cheap bastard and might say 99% of all things hi-fi audio are pricey anyway so who cares.
   
   Ultra, many times on this forum members saw my respect and appreciation for your personal help, just as much as I appreciated evaluations from both Marv and Hans but this doesn't mean I took measurement techniques from any of you. In fact just the opposite, I saw how most measurements didn't correlate much with what I hear and figured something had to be done in a totally different manner.  For me this was a chance to discover and invent something of my own.
   You gave me links for measurement software and electronics, Darin sent me links for Dummy heads and all was a great help but it doesn't mean that I had to use it. How is my decision to go a different way trying dozens of all kinds of crazy things making and correcting my own errors and trying to invent something new can be considered a crime?
   Why should this all mean that I don't appreciate yours and everyone else help is just beyond me but let's move on. You are right life is good let's enjoy it.
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ultrabike

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Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
« Reply #74 on: December 12, 2014, 08:02:02 AM »

No crime. Do what you think is right and carry on.
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AZ

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Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
« Reply #75 on: December 12, 2014, 08:18:12 AM »

Price: there are many reasons for the $1398.00 number announced.
   1) They simply can not be sold for less then $1200 as it will be unethical and disrespectful to OPPO, it has to cost more then their PM-1.
   2) Most of the mods for T50RP are at least 3 times the price of the original and go all the way up to 10 times more with latest "Prime" as an example.
   3) Audio Zenith is a start up company so all the expenses are very much different then those of the well established business and I was actually surprised by the total cost for parts and labor.
   4) Level of performance and pricing of the direct competition had to be the major factor as well.
   5) I want to keep the price to be the same for all over the world and dealers don't work for nothing.
   6) This Audio Zenith PM-2 is truly unique and that should account for a tiny bit of premium look and cost.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 01:23:52 AM by pervenets »
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AZ

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Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
« Reply #76 on: December 12, 2014, 08:45:08 AM »

Is that because you don't want others to have your calibration and or be able to simply duplicate your method ?
Don't want it to benefit the DIY community ?
Scared Neumann copies the rig ?

Hint: perhaps stick (and post) to your 'knowledge' with some humbleness applied and take the rest as 'jokes'.

   
   No, it's because I am afraid everyone will discover I actually copied someone else measurement technique, that would be a disaster;-).
  I plan on releasing some inexpensive DSP filters to properly correct all major headphone makes and models in the near future. There is much more then frequency response to be corrected employing unique equipment and algorithms and that just can't be copied.
   I think general community will benefit from it greatly, assuming that same community wouldn't destroy me even before finding out what I had to offer (you know the logo, the background, the ego etc;-). Hope dies last and thanks a lot for the hint!
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MuppetFace

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Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
« Reply #77 on: December 12, 2014, 04:26:38 PM »

Price: there are many reasons for the $1399.00 number announced.
   1) They simply can not be sold for less then $1200 as it will be unethical and disrespectful to OPPO, it has to cost more then their PM-1.

With all due respect, it seems like you're constructing a story to suit you. One could just as easily turn it around and say that selling a modded PM-2 for more than OPPO's flagship PM-1 is taking the piss out of Oppo and is disrespectful.

You put in a lot of work creating these mods, I get that, and that alone should be enough to justify your price tag. Believe me, I know and respect how much work goes into modifying a headphone. I think you do a disservice to yourself however by saying it's because of being ethical toward Oppo. Let your mods and hard work stand on their own merits for the price you are asking.
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Tari

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Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
« Reply #78 on: December 12, 2014, 04:38:29 PM »

I actually have a mod for the HD700, I am going to charge $1600 for it complete with headphone as it would be disrespectful to Sennheiser to charge less than the cost of an HD800. 
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aufmerksam

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Re: Audio Zenith PM-X
« Reply #79 on: December 12, 2014, 04:49:03 PM »

I actually have a mod for the HD700, I am going to charge $1600 for it complete with headphone as it would be disrespectful to Sennheiser to charge less than the cost of an HD800. 

I am envisioning this mod to be an HD800 with "HD700 + Tari" written in red sharpie on the side. I would probably listen to that, but $1600 seems a bit steep. Are you doing any cool black friweek deals next year?
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