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Author Topic: AKG 7XX (Massdrop) Measurement and Succinct Review  (Read 53790 times)

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ultrabike

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Re: AKG 7XXX (Massdrop) Measurement and Succinct Review
« Reply #240 on: January 17, 2015, 02:34:54 AM »

Alright, so here are some data points. First I almost never listen at loudness levels equivalent to 90 dB using a tone, much less 100 dB. Some weird high dynamic range song might come along, but even then most stuff is pretty compressed anyway.

With a 90 dB tone sweep these are the distortion plots:



With a 100 dB tone sweep things get worse, and this should be expected with most dynamic cans:



Now, using a 30 Hz tone at 100 dB I checked the driver: It vibrated very little and that was it. No deformation or crap like that.

100 dB is pretty loud. My 2i2 volume knob was almost all the way up, and I don't go far off half of what the 2i2 can give with these cans. Maybe 3 o'clock at most on some tracks (6 o'clock is mute, 12 o'clock is half...).

At 90 dB, the 2i2 was pushing about 0.263 Vrms or about 1.1 mW (also rms - cans are about 60 ohm). That jives well with Tyll's numbers of 0.84 mW to get 90 dB for the similar K712.

At 100 dB, the 2i2 was pushing about 0.8 Vrms or about 11 mW, which serves as a sanity check for the above.

This means that 22 mW one should expect about 103 dB and for 220 mW about 113 dB. Those numbers are kind of crazy loud for a 30 Hz sine wave. Given the distortion results at 100 dB, going that far may indeed result in driver damage on the long run. Don't do it. My 2i2 can't do it actually, but some other amps have plenty of power reserves and have no problem blowing up these and most other cans to pieces. If listening to music at these levels, hearing can give the ghost as well.

All this is not unique to the 7xx. 100 dB on HD600s, Grados, or whatever other open dynamic headphone should yield significant and apparent distortion in low frequencies. Dialing the amp to deliver > 110 dB at low frequencies may damage some of these cans as well, and IMO don't say much about the practical capabilities of the cans.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 03:33:49 AM by ultrabike »
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anetode

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Re: AKG 7XXX (Massdrop) Measurement and Succinct Review
« Reply #241 on: January 17, 2015, 06:27:02 AM »

Still good distortion for a dynamic even at 100db. I bet it'd be fine even with an extra 10db. Someone got a rattly driver, it happens. If one's that worried about it then send it in for a replacement or refund, or start listening to music at sane volumes instead of bottom octave test tones at deafening levels.
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ultrabike

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Re: AKG 7XXX (Massdrop) Measurement and Succinct Review
« Reply #242 on: January 17, 2015, 06:46:24 AM »

Still good distortion for a dynamic even at 100db. I bet it'd be fine even with an extra 10db.

Yup. Put a 30 Hz tone at 100 dB (my 2i2 doesn't have 110 dB for these cans) and driver was IMO pretty happy... I mean the driver sort of vibrated there but had to look close to make sure it did. Furthermore, tones are to some extent as compressed as music will ever be, so pretty loud.

Based on what I saw I wouldn't worry about it.
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AZ

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Re: AKG 7XXX (Massdrop) Measurement and Succinct Review
« Reply #243 on: January 17, 2015, 08:57:23 AM »

Ultra, thanks for posting those measurements. Clearly visible just what I was missing with these and explains things much better then my analogy with our better half's :-).
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AZ

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Re: AKG 7XXX (Massdrop) Measurement and Succinct Review
« Reply #244 on: January 17, 2015, 09:12:54 AM »

Afterthought: invert FR graph and stick it to the original one = female body  :)p1
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Hands

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Re: AKG 7XXX (Massdrop) Measurement and Succinct Review
« Reply #245 on: January 18, 2015, 08:12:13 AM »

Wanted to share my impressions of the K7XX. Full measurements to come, hopefully within the next couple days. I did have some experimental measurements floating around in another thread, if you want an early look.

The first thing I noticed is that the K7XX sounds both a bit warm and also a bit bright and metallic at the same time. I suppose in that sense, it has a bit of a U-shaped sound signature. It's also a bit grainy sounding, but I suspect this is mostly due to the upper frequency response characteristics more than anything else. Mostly clean and clear sounding, but just a touch grainy and dirty. Not the smoothest headphone I've heard by any means. However, it does do a fairly good job resolving small details. Not the best, but pretty good, though some elements are smeared together due to the treble issues I hear. Sometimes the extra warmth gets in the way a bit here too...just a tiny bit.

Now, going entirely off of faulty memory, the K702 65th AE sounded more "shouty" where as the K7XX just sounds brighter and grainier. They might also be more similar than I remember, so take that with a grain of salt. Either way, the K7XX does become somewhat irritating and fatiguing for me rather quickly with harsh music, especially something with lots of metallics/cymbals.

Thankfully, the broad bass emphasis and warmth does help cover up and balance the upper end out to an extent. I wouldn't be able to deal with it otherwise. It's not the cleanest, clearest sounding bass ever, nor is it the punchiest, but I do like the lower end balance overall.

In terms of soundstage, these sound rather wide, but not very deep in a front-to-back manner. Center imaging can be a bit lacking at times, too left and right sounding.

Comfort seems to be rather good. Very large pads, very little clamp, rather light, and the auto-adjusting headband works well. The pads are a bit stiff and cheap feeling, but nothing major. Build quality isn't half-bad, but some of the plastic used feels a bit cheap. It does not feel like it will fall apart or break easily, however.

All said, though, while these aren't entirely my thing, I think they're a really good deal at $200.

Thankfully, if your tastes are at all like mine, I've found using some of that 1/4" open-cell foam I've linked before in other threads works surprisingly well when placed in front of the driver. Cut it in a circle and just place it there. No need to take off the pads, as if it's cut to size, it'll hold in place due to friction. And the pads are large enough that the foam doesn't irritate the ears. This smooths out and attenuates the upper-mids and treble rather well. I actually quite enjoy them like this.
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Hands

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Re: AKG 7XXX (Massdrop) Measurement and Succinct Review
« Reply #246 on: January 20, 2015, 02:01:36 AM »

Here be my measurements of the K7XX. I'm guessing unit-to-unit variation is pretty low, but I did want to point out this is not the exact same unit that has been measured here already. I am also using a smaller tri-flange tip for my in-ear mic, so I am able to shove it in my gross ear hole further than before. This primarily boosts the treble measurements relative to my prior setup, but in a way that should be more accurate.

Frequency response is not too surprising. Overall fairly balanced with a bit of a broad, low-end emphasis and some uneven, sometimes peaky treble.  In my listening tests, I thought the lower-end warmth did help balance out the treble, but it wasn't quite enough to my ears. Channel matching is excellent.

Distortion results are pretty good and low when 1KHz is calibrated to 90dB. Push it much further than that, though, and distortion rises rapidly.

CSDs are pretty clean with the left driver exhibiting slight ringing around 1kHz and the right driver around 2KHz. The slight ringing in the upper-most regions is probably an artifact of some sort. Overall pretty decent and nothing worth being concerned about.

Raw measurements were a bit finicky and were primarily determined by subtle mic placement and depth differences. Regardless, the end results averaged out well. This headphone is actually quite a consistent performer.

Last measurement shows what happens when you put some 1/4" open-cell foam, the grey, medium density type that I've linked in other threads before, in front of the driver as I mentioned above. It's not perfect, but it does sound noticeably smoother and more relaxed to my ears than stock.
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Colgin

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Re: AKG 7XXX (Massdrop) Measurement and Succinct Review
« Reply #247 on: January 20, 2015, 02:52:11 AM »

How loud? (I have no idea what 82% or 100% is in audacity or 3 O'clock on O2 without knowing output voltage of source). How do you know it's 20mW? Can you measure with a DMM with a steady state 30Hz on the headphones? Most importantly, are you testing or actually listening to music when the flub-flub happens? The K7XX driver isn't that big. 30Hz test tones tend to do a lot of screwy things to headphones with small drivers, e.g. Grado.

Your AT has a huge advantage in that the driver is sealed. Open-back headphones need to work harder (more excursion) to maintain same bass level.

Ppl says K series needs amp because they sound kind of dead from an iPhone and also because they are less efficient compared to Grado, AT, Denon, Fostex (dynamic) 'phones.

If the K7XX performs fine while listening to music, I wouldn't worry about it.

my K7xx runs fine at volumes significantly higher than what I would ordinarily listen to and with tracks having significant sub bass. That is good enough for me. No way am I running test tones at high volumes for the sake of science and seeing if I can eff up my perfectly good cans.  Sorry if some are having trouble in the context of listening to music at their own normal volumes if that, in fact, is the case for some.
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spoony

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Re: AKG 7XXX (Massdrop) Measurement and Succinct Review
« Reply #248 on: January 20, 2015, 05:56:43 AM »

Last measurement shows what happens when you put some 1/4" open-cell foam, the grey, medium density type that I've linked in other threads before, in front of the driver as I mentioned above. It's not perfect, but it does sound noticeably smoother and more relaxed to my ears than stock.
That looks pretty good, but wasn't the foam 1/8"?, I have a link for a 1/8" 'charcoal' open-cell foam that I am about to order, is it the wrong one?
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Hands

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Re: AKG 7XXX (Massdrop) Measurement and Succinct Review
« Reply #249 on: January 20, 2015, 06:13:37 AM »

1/4" in this particular case. You could probably double up on 1/8" too. Let me know if you need an exact link.
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