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Author Topic: So.... I used to hate tube amplifiers, but.....  (Read 2335 times)

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wnmnkh

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So.... I used to hate tube amplifiers, but.....
« on: October 14, 2014, 03:21:42 AM »
Since I entered this hobby, I never liked tube amplifiers. Most of them were just low-fi sounding, very expensive and relatively higher-maintenance cost. I disliked Millet Hybrid (one made by Headroom and other DIY one) and some other weird ones at that day.

Recent experiences, change of my taste, and recent developments and advance of tube amplifiers, however, made me to re-consider to have tube amplifiers.

I have a Vali right now, which is a very excellent sounding tube amp with incredible clarity... except it is really just sounding like a good solid-state. Before the Vali, I bought some really cheap Chinese tube amp called Bravo V2, which sounded really terrible.

So, I am looking for very warm, true tube-signature sounding (or whatever such bullshit is) amp. I think I will have enough of Schiit (especially Rag is coming), but I am thinking about first version of Valhalla.

Otherwise, I am thinking about Woo Audio WA3/6 or cheaper ones like Little Dot MK2. I briefly listened to WA5/6, but with usual meet/audio show conditions, it was just impossible to tell whether they are good sounding or not.
 
My current amps are only Vali and Beta22 (unbalanced/balanced), with Ragnarok ordered. My question is, with my current amp lineup and my headphones (usual all high-end Sennheiser, Beyers, Audeze and Grados) is tube amp going to be a considerable investment or just a waste of money and time? And no, I have no desire to go megabucks tube amplifier now with Rag coming and recent investments on speakers.

My biggest concern is that there aren't many good tubes available anymore, and they are getting more expensive day by day.
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wnmnkh

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Re: So.... I used to hate tube amplifiers, but.....
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2014, 03:25:11 AM »
Forgot to mention that I also looked Crack and SEX. I have enough skills to make one from kits (since I also made my 6-board beta22 myself, too), but I heard the good tubes available for them are running low on stock (or is it true?).
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Anaxilus

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Re: So.... I used to hate tube amplifiers, but.....
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2014, 04:49:06 AM »
If you want to add a tube coloration that is warmer and richer I suppose there are plenty of options.  If you want to stop your budget at the Rag and hope for similar technical qualities and clarity, I'd say pretty much no chance without paying a lot more.

So if coloration is what you are after, try to describe what you want and what you can't accept.  Some of us like myself prefer the Vali type signature (clear with good inner resolution) but with better technical attributes and refinement so that sort of 'tube sound' is not usually our bag around here.
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wnmnkh

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Re: So.... I used to hate tube amplifiers, but.....
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2014, 05:19:29 AM »
Quote from: Anaxilus on October 14, 2014, 04:49:06 AM
If you want to add a tube coloration that is warmer and richer I suppose there are plenty of options.  If you want to stop your budget at the Rag and hope for similar technical qualities and clarity, I'd say pretty much no chance without paying a lot more.

So if coloration is what you are after, try to describe what you want and what you can't accept.  Some of us like myself prefer the Vali type signature (clear with good inner resolution) but with better technical attributes and refinement so that sort of 'tube sound' is not usually our bag around here.

Yes, I definitely understand that I won't be getting close-to-Rag quality sound from tube amplifiers that priced similar to Rag or below. That's for sure. I am looking for general tube coloration really.

I generally prefer dark-sounding. I am not a big fan of harsh trebles. The utmost tolerable level of treble would be AKG K701 and HD800, for headphone's case.

For clarity, I am willing to sacrifice. Vali is already damn clean, and I don't mind if I end up with less-clean sounding amp. But I can't stand utter muddy ones like cheap Bravo V2.

My current DAC is Gungnir, and to be honest, I am already having hard time discerning the differences between the DACs (Bifrost and Gungnir literally sounded same to me. I obtained Gungnir because I wanted to get back on balanced setup for my beta22).
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Marvey

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Re: So.... I used to hate tube amplifiers, but.....
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2014, 05:26:46 AM »
Try Valhalla2 for K701 or HD800. Next logical step up from Vali. Try to source a EC S7 with mods + electraprint. Or an old ZD. Crack is good. Woo WA3 is junk. WA6 is OK. WA5 needs tubes, upgrades, more tubes, etc. to sound good, and even then, the EC stuff destroys it for the same price. Avoid cheap Chinese tube stuff. It's generally junk. Transformers = almost everything with tube amps. Good transformers = $$$$$

This is assuming you prefer a somewhat uncolored tube sound. If you want color, syrup, good, thick molasses go for all the cheap Chinese stuff, the Leben, Cary, etc.

Gungnir and Uberfrost are very very close sounding.
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gurubhai

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Re: So.... I used to hate tube amplifiers, but.....
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2014, 05:35:33 AM »
Quote from: wnmnkh on October 14, 2014, 03:25:11 AM
Forgot to mention that I also looked Crack and SEX. I have enough skills to make one from kits (since I also made my 6-board beta22 myself, too), but I heard the good tubes available for them are running low on stock (or is it true?).
There are plenty of cheap ecc82/6as7 available. Some of the megabuck tubes are nicer but you are mostly paying the price for rarity rather than actual difference in sound quality.
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kothganesh

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Re: So.... I used to hate tube amplifiers, but.....
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2014, 06:20:36 AM »
Quote from: marvey on October 14, 2014, 05:26:46 AM
Try Valhalla2 for K701 or HD800. Next logical step up from Vali. Try to source a EC S7 with mods + electraprint. Or an old ZD. Crack is good. Woo WA3 is junk. WA6 is OK. WA5 needs tubes, upgrades, more tubes, etc. to sound good, and even then, the EC stuff destroys it for the same price. Avoid cheap Chinese tube stuff. It's generally junk. Transformers = almost everything with tube amps. Good transformers = $$$$$

This is assuming you prefer a somewhat uncolored tube sound. If you want color, syrup, good, thick molasses go for all the cheap Chinese stuff, the Leben, Cary, etc.

Gungnir and Uberfrost are very very close sounding.

But Marv, I am finding the Uberfrost a little too grainy compared to the Gungnir for my liking. Is that the way you hear it as well?
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Anaxilus

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Re: So.... I used to hate tube amplifiers, but.....
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2014, 07:34:55 AM »
Quote from: kothganesh on October 14, 2014, 06:20:36 AM
But Marv, I am finding the Uberfrost a little too grainy compared to the Gungnir for my liking. Is that the way you hear it as well?

That's the way I hear it as well.  The Gungnir is clearly superior (to me) still with that added refinement and precision.

You're ability to parse this will be dependent on ancillary gear and your listening priorities.  I think Marv is saying for most people the difference will be close enough to not matter much for them, that's why some have expressed that sentiment.  For us audio neurotics, it might as well be a VW beetle versus a Maybach.
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kothganesh

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Re: So.... I used to hate tube amplifiers, but.....
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2014, 04:23:37 PM »
Quote from: Anaxilus on October 14, 2014, 07:34:55 AM
Quote from: kothganesh on October 14, 2014, 06:20:36 AM
But Marv, I am finding the Uberfrost a little too grainy compared to the Gungnir for my liking. Is that the way you hear it as well?

That's the way I hear it as well.  The Gungnir is clearly superior (to me) still with that added refinement and precision.

You're ability to parse this will be dependent on ancillary gear and your listening priorities.  I think Marv is saying for most people the difference will be close enough to not matter much for them, that's why some have expressed that sentiment.  For us audio neurotics, it might as well be a VW beetle versus a Maybach.

Hey we agree on some thing. :)p1
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Marvey

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Re: So.... I used to hate tube amplifiers, but.....
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2014, 04:53:01 PM »
Gungnir = smoother, more macro-dynamics, ore extended bass, than uberfrost

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