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Author Topic: DAC guts stuff, etc.  (Read 11924 times)

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Clemmaster

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Re: DAC guts stuff, etc.
« Reply #70 on: October 17, 2014, 10:50:59 PM »

Their Evaluation Module can accept I2S.

Anyone willing to get a cheap Audio-gd I2S board and mate it with Metrum's EVA?  headbang
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tomscy2000

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Re: DAC guts stuff, etc.
« Reply #71 on: October 19, 2014, 07:07:14 AM »

There's some discrete R2R DIY kit that is claiming better performance than the PCM1704 and decodes 24/384 (uses 28-bit path):
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/259488-reference-dac-module-discrete-r-2r-sign-magnitude-24-bit-384-khz.html

Kind of interesting.
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firev1

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Re: DAC guts stuff, etc.
« Reply #72 on: October 19, 2014, 07:13:14 AM »

Some of our guys are on board that ship. I look forward to seeing where they go with it. I think I might hear it sometime since some of the locals in Singapore bought modules too.
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thune

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Re: DAC guts stuff, etc.
« Reply #73 on: October 19, 2014, 07:53:51 AM »

I'm wondering, after hearing the Yggy and reading some stuff on this forum hinted at my Moffat (some of which was echoed by Moffat at RMAF: 'reproducing the bits unchanged'...'military/aerospace accuracy')...if great R2R is all about having enough trim and being able to calibrate a look-up table (or equivalent by knowledge of every resistor coefficient) to generate accurate output voltages. The soekris Reference DAC on diyaudio may just be the thing, if it has enough trim and already comes calibrated or if one has the capacity to calibrate and feed it corrected codes. The distortion plots of the soerkis DAC show a similar character to crossover distortion at higher levels, so I'm not confident. Wonderful board and project though...much jealousy.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 08:13:35 AM by thune »
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Solderdude

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Re: DAC guts stuff, etc.
« Reply #74 on: October 20, 2014, 07:04:50 AM »

Signed magnitude R2R has the same problem as normal R2R (regardless if Soekris feels this isn't the case) but it just shifted to half the output voltage AND is also non symmetrical.
The problem is thus shifted, and doubled, as it occurs differently on the positive and negative half of the output signal, so is not eliminated nor has it become less relevant.
The 'crossover type distortion' is still there and equally 'bad' and still can affect small signals.
Small signals are superimposed on larger amplitudes and is thus not restricted to the '0V line' for AC signals.
Very similar to amplifiers that are partly in class-A and haven't been designed that well.
It isn't anything 'new' or revolutionary either the 15 year old PCM63 also had this topology but called it colinear.

You could improve this by changing the actual output codes (forward correction) to be closer to the desired output voltage but you would have to do measurements and apply it on each individual DAC/channel and will be hard to do yourself unless you have the needed test equipment and programming stuff.
It will be a different correction for positive and negative halves of the output signal as well.

As I mentioned a few pages back.... even 0.01% parts for the MSB isn't enough.

Still, even with those linearity errors the DAC will, most likely, still sound excellent to many ears.
As it doesn't have a proper reconstruction filter (nor do other NOS DACs in general) for lower bitrates the >6kHz signals will still suffer from 'roll-off' which makes these DACs 'mellow' sounding. That roll-off isn't 'fixed' though and highly depends on the output frequency/sampling frequency relation (whether they happen to be in 'sync' or not at specific points in time).
So while Kees's (Metrum) theory may be valid for 1kHz sine wave signals (the drivers and ears combined are acting as a >8th order smoothing filter) the drivers and ears do not act as a proper reconstruction filter (it needs to be ringing to do so) at all and thus the higher frequencies DO sound different from the signals that had been recorded.

Of course some roll-off seems to be preferred by many so may be a blessing to some and be viewed as 'increased fidelity' by (varying) lack of upper treble.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 02:48:52 PM by Solderdude »
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Hands

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Re: DAC guts stuff, etc.
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2014, 01:45:01 AM »

Does anyone have any particular recommendations for vintage DACs out of stuff like the PCM6x/5x, TDA15xx, AD18xx, and so on? Datasheets are helpful but only go so far. Am most curious about performance in good implementations that these datasheets won't say anything about, or just general characteristics (tone, for example) of these various chips. I know they're just one part of a DAC, so a loose or generalized answer is OK.
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Anaxilus

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Re: DAC guts stuff, etc.
« Reply #76 on: November 08, 2014, 06:45:19 PM »

Added LH DAC vid to first post for reference and further discussion should it arise.

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firev1

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Re: DAC guts stuff, etc.
« Reply #77 on: November 08, 2014, 07:17:21 PM »

Slots and stuff, see that TONS in multimeter and bench designs, but none in audiophool stuff and I don't remember seeing them in AGD DACs too. Ground plane and clock layouts are very thorough and again, I don't see them much in the bareboards I looked at in my limited exp.
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Clemmaster

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Re: DAC guts stuff, etc.
« Reply #78 on: November 08, 2014, 08:26:59 PM »

Slots and stuff, see that TONS in multimeter and bench designs, but none in audiophool stuff and I don't remember seeing them in AGD DACs too. Ground plane and clock layouts are very thorough and again, I don't see them much in the bareboards I looked at in my limited exp.

Audio-gd use separate boards for digital and analog altogether (in the TOTL designs, at least).

The clock trace thing is basic electronics, though. You obviously want them to be equal length for both DACs.
I don't like to see different shapes for both traces, though. Placing the clock in the center and a mirror design is more reassuring to me.
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uncola

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Re: DAC guts stuff, etc.
« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2014, 01:02:26 AM »

the squiggly line will have different trace impedance, which is bad.. that's what my electronics mentor friend says.  It's only a single pcb so maybe it was done this way for space saving?  Anyway it's pretty cool for the designer to explain his board layout.  This is going to be my first nice dac so I hope it doesn't suck.  What exactly do the slots do?  does it prevent noise?
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